Lets talk about Tookie

[wikedgolf]

I know this is a touchie subject.. but whats ur thoughts on this?

::step up on soapbox::

Stanley Tookie Williams, founder of the Crips street gang. Sentanced to death for the murder of 4 people.

On February 28, 1979, about 4 a.m., Williams and three friends got high on their psychedelic smokes and took two cars, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .22-caliber handgun to Pomona in search of a place to rob, according to court documents. They ended up at a 7-Eleven where Albert Owens, 26, was working the overnight shift, sweeping the parking lot.

The military veteran was a "redheaded, freckle-faced kid who had the biggest smile you wanted to see," according to his older brother, Wayne Owens, 55, of Olathe, Kansas.

Albert Owens said, "Take everything you want," says the now-retired prosecutor, Robert Martin, who remembers the case in detail.

Williams ordered Owens into a back room at gunpoint, shot out a security monitor, then ordered, "Get down on your knees, (expletive)," and shot him twice in the back, according to testimony. Williams "later laughed about it as he was eating his hamburger," Martin says.

There were no witnesses other than accomplices.

Less than two weeks later, on March 11, Williams broke down the door at the Brookhaven Motel, ripping through four locks and shattering the molding, according to a prosecutor.

Killed were Yen-I Yang, 76; his wife, Tsai-Shai Yang, 63, and their visiting daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, 43. The Taiwanese immigrants were about to sell the business because the neighborhood had become too rough, Martin said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/03/tookie.execution.ap/



MY thoughts:
OK. Frist off. If this guys has repented and changed his life and the life of others, How come We only started hearing about him a few weeks ago? and if he has repented that god will forgive him once he reaches those golden gates in the sky. He's gotten to live 27 years longer than the 4 people he killed.

He wrote some childrens books to help teach childern about not being in gangs. BUT both is sons are in prision one is in there for rap.. in FONTANA!! i grew up there!

'Tookie' Williams' Son Allegedly Rapes Girl At Gunpoint
NBC 4 ^ | 11/15/2005 | Staff
Posted on 11/29/2005 6:17:21 PM PST by BunnySlippers

FONTANA, Calif. -- Southern California law enforcement officers searched Tuesday for a 36-year-old rape suspect believed to be a son of Crips street gang co-founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams, who is awaiting execution.

Lafayette Jones, a registered sex offender who may be in the Los Angeles area, allegedly lured a 13-year-old girl into his car in northern Fontana on Saturday, promising to take her shopping at a mall, police said.


Amazingly Tookie has ANOTHER son ... who is serving 16 years for murder right now.

So much for the children's books!

::steps off soapbox::

[beehotch619]

i agree..... he killed four people in cold blood.

quote:
Williams ordered Owens into a back room at gunpoint, shot out a security monitor, then ordered, "Get down on your knees, (expletive)," and shot him twice in the back, according to testimony. Williams "later laughed about it as he was eating his hamburger," Martin says.

any one who does this is not fit to live....... sorry if i offended anyone, but i believe in the death penalty, tookie does, he executed four people, but they were only minding their own business.....

[Anonymous]

BUT both is sons are in prision one is in there for rap.. in FONTANA!! i grew up there!


::steps off soapbox::

More people should go to prison for rap. ;)

[LAZY TURBO]

looks like the entire family is full of bad seeds

[Slapshotnerd]

growing up in that lifestyle, it's more like "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree".

[ManaSteel]

A part of me wants to forgive him, but another part wants redemption.

[madajb]

Death is a waste.
I prefer life doing hard labor.

-ajb

[mr_wrong]

My wife's a school teacher in So. Central LA (54th & Avalon). apparently there's been a lot of "chatter" about this, saying that if he's executed, there's gonna be "hell to pay".

Guess we'll see how it all plays out...

[URQ]

My wife's a school teacher in So. Central LA (54th & Avalon). apparently there's been a lot of "chatter" about this, saying that if he's executed, there's gonna be "hell to pay".

Guess we'll see how it all plays out...
My Vote is for EXECUTION!
And if we have to free up some extra room in the Jails for all the people who want to Riot over this matter so be it.
It will just tell us who is a threat to society.

[madajb]

My wife's a school teacher in So. Central LA (54th & Avalon). apparently there's been a lot of "chatter" about this, saying that if he's executed, there's gonna be "hell to pay".

Guess we'll see how it all plays out...
AS much as I think the death penalty is counter-productive, I'm all for shooting rioters.
-ajb

[URQ]

I can see that this topic could and will be quite long with everyone’s differences.

[wikedgolf]

My wife's a school teacher in So. Central LA (54th & Avalon). apparently there's been a lot of "chatter" about this, saying that if he's executed, there's gonna be "hell to pay".

Guess we'll see how it all plays out...


ya.. look at the life styles and poverty level of most the people that say that there will be hell to pay.... it going to be mainly the lowlife gang people that have nothing to lose in life... they do what has been feed into their heads by other gang members and the media.

He's part of the "do not snitch" clothing line. What kind of message is that sending young people. Its a bad message.

If he's also granted clemiancy, thats another bad message. thats letting every gang member in the system know that it was ok that they killer, sold drugs, and rapped.. as long as they do good in prison. they will be saved... FUCK THTAT. im stick of my tax money going to pay for these crimanals to live a life where they have a bed and 3 square meals aday. They keep building prisions, there's three alone here in Victorville.

[05GLI]

He needs to die. Plain and simple. He murdered 4 people. Can you imagine what that would do for all the murders on death row? We don't exicution enough people.

If they let him off it just shows everyone how weak we are becoming not only as people but as a Nation.

[Ghostdog]

kill the fucker...he did it and who gives a flying fuck if he changed...he is still a murderer and would have done more damage if he would have been out.

[URQ]

We the Tax payers have been paying on this guy for the past 24 YEARS???:bs:

[vtecwho]

he is a waste of space kill him. So what he wrote some childrens books, If Micheal Jackson wrote some childrens books would he not be a child molester anymore.

[Troike]

OK. Frist off. If this guys has repented and changed his life and the life of others, How come We only started hearing about him a few weeks ago?

I heard of him when I read a book a few years ago (excellent but harrowing read), called Monster ... an autobiography of a Crips gang member who probably killed 20-30 people.
In the book, he mentions Tookie, and all the amazing things he did - from founding the gang, to many murders (not the ones he's convicted of).

You have to know that someone who started one of the two biggest gangs in the country didn't just kill four people :rolleyes:

If Osama repented and started working with AI and the Red Cross / Red Crescent, would we let him off? This guy really is just as bad, if you look at all he's done.

So he regretted wasting his life and wrote some books, great. Who cares. He was given a sentence, no matter how injust; it'd be more injust to override that sentence in a singular case, while letting many other lesser killers die just because they didn't write children's books or gain national prominence.

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

This situation is yet another example of how out of touch with reality the Hollywood types are.

I don't care how many books he writes or how many times he's nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. 4 people are dead (probably more) by his hand.

[bugzy]

death is the easy way out

have him sent to a gay prison in siberia ... and make do hard labor
shot him when he's done about 30-40 years of hump me in the ass labor

send the video of his stay at prison to his crip members

[wikedgolf]

Well they are talking to arnald as we speak

Quote:
acramento - California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger holds a clemency hearing on condemned Crips gang co-founder Stanley Tookie Williams on Thursday before he makes one of the most anticipated decisions of his administration.

Williams, 51, murdered a store clerk and a family running a motel in separate 1979 robberies. After 24 years in prison, he is set to be executed by lethal injection next Tuesday at San Quentin prison north of San Francisco.

During a 60-minute session behind closed doors, his lawyers will make an unusual argument in asking Schwarzenegger to commute Williams' sentence to life in prison without the possibility of parole.


I also found out that Arnold knew Tookie before he commited the murders.
Arnald was going to be one of Tookies Body building sposore for the contests.
Tookie turned it down and went back to the gang life. This will be total bullshit if arnold lets this moster live.

[nanobot6]

If he is truely rehabilitated, then he can be forgiven for his crime but, it doesn't mean he shouldn't still pay for his crime.

Think about how the family of the murdered people feel, who is out in the street holding up signs in remembrance of the victims.

As far as the Hollywood types, they are all a lost cause lending themselves to causes that are lost. There is no hope for them.

[karl]

and if he's exhonerated *sp*......it'll be not long before they try to parole him

[wikedgolf]

and if he's exhonerated *sp*......it'll be not long before they try to parole him


they already said he wouldnt get that for his crimes. He would still live his life out in prison under our tax paying money. :rolleyes:

[vtecwho]

death is the easy way out

have him sent to a gay prison in siberia ... and make do hard labor
shot him when he's done about 30-40 years of hump me in the ass labor

send the video of his stay at prison to his crip members

are you kidding me have you seen how big this dude is. He will be doing all the humping.

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040408/040408_redemption_vmed_12p.widec.jpg

[URQ]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040408/040408_redemption_vmed_12p.widec.jpg
DAAAAMMMMMM hes a big one.

[SoCal_GLI]

apparently none of you have seen the movie....

[1vr6driver]

...and you KNOW that our governer swarchenegar will get criticized for what ever decision he makes. So he better choose carefully which decision will hurt him less...meaning, If he fights to save tookies life, hes gonna hear it from all that want him dead. On the other hand, if he has tookie executed, than hes gonna get it from the tookie supporters.
I personaly believe he should live....this is 20 some yrs back, and hes displayed his changes....

[05GLI]

I personaly believe he should live....this is 20 some yrs back, and hes displayed his changes....


Obviously you believe that If I stole your car and it had one of your family members in it then I set the car on fire with that family member in it and watched them burn It is bad.

But if I turn around write a book on the downfall of drinking and driving and how not to play with fire It is ok. :bs: He desirves to die like everyone elso that is on death row.

[mike]

. personaly believe he should live....this is 20 some yrs back, and hes displayed his changes....

Ok.........so all of the appologies and the passage of time means its OK to murder a store clerk for $63 and a family of three in cold blood.......................................

If it was your mother, father, and sister dead, you would sing a very different tune.........and don't say you wouldn't either

Oh.................did we also forget the social cancer of the "crips" that he founded, that now has more than 230 known active sets in the L.A. region alone........how many more people have died and been affected from THAT.

But thats ok. we will let him say sorry, then let him out of his death senstance and pay to support his criminal ass with our tax dollars and send a message of lieniancy to the country when it comes to a multiple murderer. All of the appologies and counsel he has provided won't bring those for people back, abolish the crips and fixed all the other lives he has "touched"

Give me the needle....I'll do it myself...............better yet, throw him in the yard with a shitload of bloods and let him get his throat slashed and dye a horrible death in violence that he inspired others to carry out.

[paultakeda]

Another vote for hard labor. It's an odd thing that we consider slavery a bad thing when it was such a handy way of dealing with criminals.

I think it has to do with the newer form of slavery, which found roots in the American South. Most people come up with that image in their heads when slavery in other, ancient forms have existed.

[nanobot6]

I agree that criminals, especially violent criminal should be put in work camps, not prison. Why should you get amenities when you have chosen to go outside of societies boundries?

You should get three hots and a cot, and you should work your ass off every day all day until your time is served and served hard.

These criminals get things that alot of law abiding citizens can't get. Internet, trade courses, tutoring, counselling, health care, medicine. Yes prison is no picnic but it should be harder on them so they never want to go back. I mean really, what percentage of criminals actually get rehabed? and then go back into society and do well. The prisons now are just training and networking places for criminals to get harder and smarter.

[Troike]

These criminals get things that alot of law abiding citizens can't get. Internet, trade courses, tutoring, counselling, health care, medicine. Yes prison is no picnic but it should be harder on them so they never want to go back. I mean really, what percentage of criminals actually get rehabed? and then go back into society and do well. The prisons now are just training and networking places for criminals to get harder and smarter.

Rather ironic that, as 'advanced' as our society is, we still have no proper solution for criminals. We just warehouse more and more and more of them, executing few while continually lengthening sentences.

I've been on both sides of the equation; studying criminal justice and knowing people who have served time (been arrested but not jailed myself). It never fails to irritate me how we have no solution to our crime problems, other than "out of sight, out of mind."

I don't even believe murderers deserve 25-to-life, unless they're mass killers ... but I see the death penalty as more humane than a lengthy prison term. I'd much rather be killed than spend the last 75% of my life behind bars. Killing people upon conviction would be more humane.

[wikedgolf]

Schwarzenegger delays Tookie decision

SACRAMENTO, Dec. 11 (UPI) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger delayed his decision Sunday on Stanley Tookie Williams' request for clemency.

The governor will likely issue his decision on Monday, hours before the co-founder of the Crips street gang is scheduled to be executed by lethal injection, the Los Angeles Times reported.

Actor Jaime Foxx and influential groups such as the NAACP campaigned on behalf of Williams, who was convicted in 1981 of four murders during two robberies, the newspaper said.

Williams has maintained he is innocent.

He and his supporters say that he has changed his life since his gang days, writing children's books and warning youths about the perils of the gangster life.

CNN reported late Sunday that Williams' lawyers presented evidence to Schwarzenegger that a former Williams cellmate said a key prosecution witness admitted that he was pressured by the prosecution to testify against Williams.

Copyright 2005 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051211-23532100-bc-us-execute-tookie.xml

[lordoftheblings]

ahahahah...
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040408/040408_redemption_vmed_12p.widec.jpg

Yet 1 more reason we dont need weights in prison. Fuck all those people. They gave up their rights the minute to commited crimes. Remember the plantation owners? They killed all the smart slaves and then bred the stronger big ones together to create, stronger, better slaves. Worked so well for them.

Now lfash forward a few hundred year, what are we allowing? prisoners to be bigger and stroner than their keepers? Granted the guards do have guns but it only takes a few iinamtes to overrun the guards..

It's happened again. Fuck Tookie, lets juice his ass up.

[Ghostdog]

Fuck That Killer Nigga Bitch

[SYNYSTAGLI]

Arnold says NO!

[creanium]

Tookie will be dead shortly after midnight tonight

[lordoftheblings]

He said he uses his life as a analogy for gang violence, well the final ironic bit of that analogy is the he is going to die for it. Not by the hand of another banger, but by that of the civilized, compassionate society.

fuck that dude, kill em all. All gnags that perpetuate the cycle of violence, ignorance, self aparthy. Very few gangs have done anything to imporve their surroundings. One of the few, The Guardian Angels in NYC.

I dont feel any compassion for him, nobel prixe or not. We havent accepted anything less from SS leaders from WWII, regardless of the lives they've lived after WWII. Tookie helped to create a cycle of genocide amongst young black men/women.

[NaKoRuRu]

Schwarzenegger was unswayed by pleas from Hollywood stars and petitions from more than 50,000 people who said that Williams had made amends during more than two decades in prison by writing a memoir and children's books about the dangers of gangs.
Arnuuuld did good...

"Me fearing what I'm facing, what possible good is it going to do for me? How is that going to benefit me?" Williams said in a recent interview. "If it's my time to be executed, what's all the ranting and raving going to do?"

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051211/capt.ny11812112220.williams_execution__ny118.jpg?x =380&y=329&sig=pgmsJ7Ob3tn_Koea82E1lQ--

[lostntainted]

so are making any bets on the riots that are gonna break out soon after his death? :confused:

[wikedgolf]

so are making any bets on the riots that are gonna break out soon after his death? :confused:


what.. let the people who protest cuase riots in their own city.. what does that solove..nothing.. al they are going to do is fuck it up for them selfs even more.

i'll say it.. It will be the black getto community distroying their own community. moe black on black crime.

[v2rocket]

jesus christ

thank god for vigalante protection when it comes down to it i can run upstairs and have my hands on my grandpa's 1911 and kar98

[lostntainted]

what.. let the people who protest cuase riots in their own city.. what does that solove..nothing.. al they are going to do is fuck it up for them selfs even more.

i'll say it.. It will be the black getto community distroying their own community. moe black on black crime.

yeah i'd have to agree with you on that one but you know SOMETHING is gonna break out soon after :tdown:

[Monster8V]

did the crime, was convicted by a jurry. All the appeals failed. Plenty of safety valves built into the system. Too many in my book. Hes been breathing air for far too long now on evidence that solid.

So, he wrote some books and changed his life. Everyone on death row finds Jesus.

Like my dad told me as a kid, "it takes alot of Atta-boys to take care on one AWW SHIT".

Now, if he were white, this wouldnt even make the media.

The black community will not see this as an execution but an assasination. Let them riot.

[mr_wrong]

did the crime, was convicted by a jurry. All the appeals failed. Plenty of safety valves built into the system. Too many in my book. Hes been breathing air for far too long now on evidence that solid.

So, he wrote some books and changed his life. Everyone on death row finds Jesus.

Like my dad told me as a kid, "it takes alot of Atta-boys to take care on one AWW SHIT".

Now, if he were white, this wouldnt even make the media.

Yikes... We actually agree...


The black community will not see this as an execution but an assasination. Let them riot.

My guess is tomorrow's just gonna be another day.. Less one gang member. Maybe a few isolated happenings, but nothing to get in a twist over. I think the cops learned there lesson after the Rodney King aftermath.. They're already on tactical alert. My wife's a little on edge, since as I stated earlier in this thread, she's a school teacher in So. Central LA... Guess we'll wait and see....

[mike]

One less piece of shit I have to support out of my pay check...................the juice in the needle costs too much, I will gladly donate a few 7.62X39mm rounds for the cause..........If I was in charge, I would line up all the inmates on deathrow that have been convicted without a doubt, and clear the table.

I would like to see it televised on pay-per view, public execution, just like the old days, and all the proceedes would go to the victims families.

[madcaddies]

i beat him up once

[ehppah]

[quote=mike]I will gladly donate a few 7.62X39mm rounds for the causequote]

you have an ak?

[SoCal_GLI]

[quote=mike]I will gladly donate a few 7.62X39mm rounds for the causequote]

you have an ak?

he might have a one of the other 50 weapons that use the 7.62

[mitssn]

[quote=ehppah]

he might have a one of the other 50 weapons that use the 7.62

ah burn

[mike]

[QUOTE=ehppah]

he might have a one of the other 50 weapons that use the 7.62

AK, SKS, SKS-D, Yugo M-59 :D ...........welcome to america, there are plenty of guns that run that caliber that are CA legal, or used to be and have been grandfathered after the ban that started in 9.13.94 (expired on 9.13.04 but no effect on CA laws) or on 01.01.00............I swear I'm moving out of this state

[ehppah]

i have a lotus.
you have an elise?

i know other rifles use that round, but i figured that would be a good guess. sorry for being partly right...

[Monster8V]

nuthin left to talk about. Justice has finally been served.

[wikedgolf]

ding dong the wicked tookie is dead

[beehotch619]

no riots yet.....

[lostntainted]

no riots yet.....

damn i needed a new tv :(

[v2rocket]

no riots yet.....

damn tv's, dvd players, computers, money, other peoples children, hot asian womenz, its all on my list of things to get.

im just itching for a riot to break out to start collecting :tup: