Arizona jail....a pioneer in reform??

[FunkTron]

just got this little tidbit in an email...and just thought i would pass it along to get some input/comments on it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates
for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails.

Took away their weights.

Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and
city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for
discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court
order that required cable TV for
jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney
channel and the weather
channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how
hot it's gonna be while they
are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the
Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it,
don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that pipes into
the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he
replied that a democratic
lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails
in the first place.

More on the Arizona Sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees
just set a new record), the
Associated Press reports:

About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment
at the Maricopa County Jail
have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued
pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on
their bunk beds or chatted in
the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their
chests and dripped down to
their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace" said James
Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in
the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long
ago started making his
prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit
sympathetic.

He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in
Iraq and our soldiers are
living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they
didn't commit any crimes, so
shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one, there
would be a lot less crime and/or
repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not
live in luxury until it's
time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they
can get back in to live on
taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for
themselves.

[vtecwho]

that guy is great. all prisons should be like that. my dad works for the washington state prison system and he delivers all there crap that they buy. he tells me all the time that they bitch about not getting the correct items. he cant talk back to them but he wants to tell them "he dick you shouldnt be put in prison you dumb ass." those guys in prisons are piles of shit anyway we should just lock them up and forget em.

[madajb]

While I certainly don't think that prisoners should be coddled, I would think that putting them in 138F tents is just asking for a death by heatstroke and the accompanying family lawsuit...
-ajb

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Inmates shouldn't get it any better than the worst conditions that our soldiers have to face. If there's a Marine living in a dusty hole in Iraq with no cot or hot water......that's what the inmate gets.

[GH006]

i'll stick that guy when I have a chance if I was in jail... juss for making me wear pink, being that hot too, for sure... disney channel or not... lol

[madajb]

Inmates shouldn't get it any better than the worst conditions that our soldiers have to face. If there's a Marine living in a dusty hole in Iraq with no cot or hot water......that's what the inmate gets.
I guess we should randomly blow up one of the tents too...drop a few mortars into the chain gang?
Soldiers are volunteers and (theoretically) know what they are getting into.
Prisoners are in the custody of society, and society has a duty to treat them humanely.
-ajb

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Criminals volunteer to become criminals.


If society owes anyone anything, it's the troops. Humane treatment is not cable tv and hot coffee. It's food, shelter, and access to medical care.

[madajb]

Criminals volunteer to become criminals.

heh, let's not get into that debate...

If society owes anyone anything, it's the troops. Humane treatment is not cable tv and hot coffee. It's food, shelter, and access to medical care.
Did I suggest otherwise?
-ajb

[GTISurfer]

Prisoners are in the custody of society, and society has a duty to treat them humanely.-ajb


And im sure the murderers of little baby's and children were thinking about humanity when they commited their crimes....

People are in prison for a reason. There's no reason that we should treat them properly. They made the choices they did, hence they pay for it. Just as if you recieve a speeding ticket. You stepped on the gas pedal, so you pay the fine.


If some one killed your mom or wife or family or friend, would you want them to have A/C and decent clothes sitting around looking at porn and getting 3 decent meals a day? Fuck that, let them wear pink and go a few days in the heat.

If the people in arizona who are not fortunate enough to have jobs in doors (landscapers, builders, etc) can deal with the summer heat, then so can an inmate on the chain gang cleaning up the side of the road.


What you dont know is that while they only spend 4 hours on the chain gang, the rest of the day they are in a class room inside being taught lessons from teachers. If you drive down the road and see teenagers locked in shackles digging ditches and picking up trash, would think twice about breaking the law? Hopefully some teens/adults get the message. Of course there are always those who dont.

[madajb]

People are in prison for a reason. There's no reason that we should treat them properly. They made the choices they did, hence they pay for it. Just as if you recieve a speeding ticket. You stepped on the gas pedal, so you pay the fine.

Ok, I'll play along.
Certain traffic crimes are felonies. How about we build a big tent city out in the Mojave and send you out there the next time you get caught doing 100+ on the freeway?

If some one killed your mom or wife or family or friend, would you want them to have A/C and decent clothes sitting around looking at porn and getting 3 decent meals a day? Fuck that, let them wear pink and go a few days in the heat.

Likely not, but as a taxpayer, I'd rather not pay out millions of dollars to inmate families just because some jackass Sheriff thinks he's being a tough guy by keeping tents at 130+F.

If the people in arizona who are not fortunate enough to have jobs in doors (landscapers, builders, etc) can deal with the summer heat, then so can an inmate on the chain gang cleaning up the side of the road.

Apples...Oranges..

What you dont know is that while they only spend 4 hours on the chain gang, the rest of the day they are in a class room inside being taught lessons from teachers.
Huh..there's a concept, try to teach people not to come back to jail...yeah, we'd better stop that.

-ajb

[mike]

I think keeping them in military tents surrounded by surplus razor wire is great idea, and I agree that the conditions are no worse than our soldiers are in, so I say F*ck'em, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. were too easy on criminals IMO. With TV, dental and health care, weights and comfortable (for what they are) cells, 15 years worth of appeals (us paying for his food and shelter and benifits) for a murderer who was found to be more than guilty because now HE doesn't want to die. This is what we pay for for them breaking the law? I say if they are guilty of murder without a doubt, off to the gas chamber. If your going to be locked up and pay for your crime, it shouldn't be a cake walk. I have a friend in Fedral for GTA and armed robbery for 21 years, that we all have to pay for the $100 million dollar facility he is in, even though hes my friend, I would rater he sleep on a cot in a tent in the middle of the desert and have the left over $99 million go to schools and other programs.

I will get off my soap box now

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

heh, let's not get into that debate...

hehe.....i knew you'd say that.


Did I suggest otherwise?
-ajb
I read too much into your post and started making false inferences......too many Michael Moore movies. :p

I did like your idea of random mortar attacks. Maybe we could throw in some IED's and the occasional kidnapping and beheading. [i kid, i kid]


Likely not, but as a taxpayer, I'd rather not pay out millions of dollars to inmate families just because some jackass Sheriff thinks he's being a tough guy by keeping tents at 130+F.

And you know as well as I do.....just because a prison has all the creature comforts of a Hilton does not mean that the inmates or their families are going to stop suing (and winning!). If they're not suing about the tents or pink undies, they'll be suing that their eggs were over-medium instead of over-easy.

[wrongbeach]

shit i like the idea they need to do that here, put all the prisons in death valley or in thermal, in tents, ramparts, mortars fuck it the occasional sidewinder when someone strays to far from camp. (i don't kid)

[madajb]

And you know as well as I do.....just because a prison has all the creature comforts of a Hilton does not mean that the inmates or their families are going to stop suing (and winning!). If they're not suing about the tents or pink undies, they'll be suing that their eggs were over-medium instead of over-easy.
True, they will.
However, if someone dies of heatstroke because this guy is too stubborn to keep the tents at a reasonable temp (say 100F), then it's going to be a lot harder to get that case dismissed than it will be to get your average nuisance lawsuit dimissed.
There is no need to mollycoddle inmates, but there is also no reason to be callous either.
-ajb

[madajb]

shit i like the idea they need to do that here, put all the prisons in death valley or in thermal, in tents, ramparts, mortars fuck it the occasional sidewinder when someone strays to far from camp. (i don't kid)
The way we treat "them" always sounds good until someone we know (or ourselves) ends up there.

-ajb

[vtecwho]

The way we treat "them" always sounds good until someone we know (or ourselves) ends up there.

-ajb
why do "you" always say "them" when ever socaleuro members have post like these. can "we" not call a large grouping of people them or they or those people.

and the "inmates" in prison are in prison for doing something illeagal. yea the inmates are human beings but most of the inmates in prisons are in there for very bad crimes like murder, rape, and bank robberies. so why should the general population of citizens treat inmates nice or good. and if someone i knew or even loved was in prison i would be like tuff shit you shouldnt have killed that person or did what you did to get in prison.

you dont just end up in prison.

look i didnt use "they" or "them" or "those people" once.

[madajb]

why do "you" always say "them" when ever socaleuro members have post like these. can "we" not call a large grouping of people them or they or those people.
Mainly because people seem to think jail (and we are talking about a jail, not a prison) is for other people. There is a palpable "That only happens to bad people, I'll never have to deal with it, so it's not my problem" attitude around here.

For example, in this thread (http://www.socaleuro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119&highlight=poll), quite a few people admitted to driving tipsy, if not completely drunk.
In Maricopa County. a first offense "Extreme DUI" means at least 10 days in Tent City, possibly more.
Those folks busted on their way to waterworks probably would have ended up in Tent City had they been in Maricopa County.
On a side note, I've read that the people in Tent City have access to indoor air conditioned rooms. No doubt there are controlled as privileges. It would interesting to know how they work that.

-ajb

[GH006]

in America, Jail is where they send society failures, but society itself is failing... guess we're all going to hell

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

...most of the inmates in prisons are in there for very bad crimes like murder, rape, and bank robberies.....
Just so you know....most of the people serving time are there for drug related offenses.

[vtecwho]

Just so you know....most of the people serving time are there for drug related offenses.
just as well the inmates in for drugs are not helping society any

[FunkTron]

hehe....i think the medical and dental is a bit far for them to be helping them out.

i pay out the ass for medical....and dental....i dont have insurance....and i cant afford dental work. im fucked...and im legal....they are illegal...therefore they should be even more fucked.

the heat may be a bit extreme...but hot is just fine...and pink......how cute....im sure Bubba the Rectal-Bulldozer is lovin that one!

[vtecwho]

For example, in this thread (http://www.socaleuro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119&highlight=poll), quite a few people admitted to driving tipsy, if not completely drunk.
In Maricopa County. a first offense "Extreme DUI" means at least 10 days in Tent City, possibly more.
Those folks busted on their way to waterworks probably would have ended up in Tent City had they been in Maricopa County.


-ajb

then people should be prepared to face the consiquences of there actions. yea i drink and drive when i get caught im not going to be mad at anyone but my self.

[wrongbeach]

The way we treat "them" always sounds good until someone we know (or ourselves) ends up there.

-ajb

if any person did the crime send them away, that goes for me or you, no one person is better than any other. (even though society demands otherwise) I love my brother to death but if he did something stupid and was sent to the tent oh fucking well, if i did some stupid shit and got sent there, that would teach me to stay in line so i would not have to go back.

[mike]

I guarantee you if I ( or most people for that matter) got a DUI and had to spend ten days in "tent city" I wouldn't drink and drive again. Sound like a good way to dry out, maybe I would never drink again period.........naw, thats going too far!

[Troike]

just as well the inmates in for drugs are not helping society any

Yup, because we all know every single person who has ever used drugs is a complete social failure and deserves to be locked up in a hellish enviornment and punished for their terrible crimes ...

i can't believe some of you people. you buy into the whole "all people in prison are evil" mentality without questioning why they are there in the first place. Do you think this punishment is going to help them? It sure might discourage them from some crime and wanting to return, but the fact remains that if you have even a single conviction on your record, you're pretty much f*cked. Its hard enough to get a job with a nice resume, try landing one after you've done time. Life after prison is the cruelest violation of double-jeopardy ever, and clearly this one does nothing to help the inmates try and regain social acceptance and improve themselves by learning some skills. If you can't even get hired at the local FatBurger, you just might have to sling to buy some bread.

You'd think by majoring in Criminal Justice, I'd be gung-ho for our wonderful system which imprisons millions of people, must be those damn Arizona liberals getting to my head :rolleyes: Corrections everywhere is a complete joke, but most of all in Maricopa County.


When I used to drive down to Phoenix, I'd get a chill as soon as I crossed the county line.

http://www.arpaio.com/

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Yup, because we all know every single person who has ever used drugs is a complete social failure and deserves to be locked up in a hellish enviornment and punished for their terrible crimes ...


The criminalization of drug addiction is a whole other topic, however, when I first mentioned drug crimes, I was also including the dealers and couriers.

Prison should be a mean, nasty, and hostile environment. I'm not talking gladiator arenas, but they definitely should not have any creature comforts.

Did you know that the federal jail in downtown San Diego has pool tables on some of the floors? And recently, the officers that work there were told they could no longer wear black leather gloves, only latex gloves would be allowed. Some inmates were complaining that the black leather was too intimidating. I'm not making this up. That sort of environment is exactly the opposite of what a jail should be.

vtecwho hit on a HUGE point.......if you break a law and your ass lands in prison guess who's fault it is............YOURS. People are too ready to blame everyone/everything else. It happens here on this very board. How many posts do we see where someone cusses a cop up and down because they got caught doing 90 in a 65? Big surprise here folks....it's not the cop's fault you were speeding.

[madajb]

Prison should be a mean, nasty, and hostile environment. I'm not talking gladiator arenas, but they definitely should not have any creature comforts.

Why? What purpose does that serve? Other than to make hardened men harder, and undereducated men even less likely to be useful to society?

While I don't argue the point that a prison (or jail) should be fun and games, I do argue that a safe, clean, well run prison with no tolerance for bullshit (from cons and guards) with useful opportunities to gain some sort of skill should be the goal of the corrections establishment. Note that cable TV and pool tables do not help achieve this goal, but a well-stocked prison library does.

Now, should it become necesary to have harsher treatment for incorrigables, I'm not opposed, but I don't think that should be the default.
-ajb
(Yes, I know this verges on Intro to Criminology 101, but it's an interesting discussion all the same)

[mike]

Why? What purpose does that serve? Other than to make hardened men harder, and undereducated men even less likely to be useful to society?

I agree with some of that alan, they need to have job training progams in prison, they dont need TV time, weights. They need a marketable skill so they can make a living when they do get out instead of falling back into the same cycle because they have no way, or can't adjust after being in prison.
But if they get that training, and realize that prison really sucks ass and it isn't just a less comfortable version "Extended stay america" where its more like 20 years of boot camp, I would think the revolving door effect would be significantly less and Cons would be more motivated to stay on the right track.
My friend who is in fedral for the next 20 years will have nothing but his high school diploma, two years of art college and his anime drawings when he gets out at age 45. will he last out side of the walls after 20 years? he's already been in a little over a year and he still has high spirits. but he is starting to get comfortable which I think is bad.

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Why? What purpose does that serve? Other than to make hardened men harder, and undereducated men even less likely to be useful to society?

While I don't argue the point that a prison (or jail) should be fun and games, I do argue that a safe, clean, well run prison with no tolerance for bullshit (from cons and guards) with useful opportunities to gain some sort of skill should be the goal of the corrections establishment. Note that cable TV and pool tables do not help achieve this goal, but a well-stocked prison library does.

Now, should it become necesary to have harsher treatment for incorrigables, I'm not opposed, but I don't think that should be the default.
-ajb
(Yes, I know this verges on Intro to Criminology 101, but it's an interesting discussion all the same)
It serves to make prison a place where people don't want to go. I've arrested people that have told me they don't care if they go to prison, they get to hang out and play basketball with their friends. I never said we shouldn't educate them. Prison should be a lot more like boot camp. Long days of hard work, highly disciplined and structured daily regimine, training, training, and training. Recreation should be at the bottom of the list.

Mike, what's your friend doing 20 for....drugs?

[mike]

Mike, what's your friend doing 20 for....drugs?

our teenage years we did a lot of drugs, the last major go around was ectasy. It was fun but I realized I had to rely on myself and grow up so I quit dabbling in thoses things around 19-20. He enrolled in art college after high school and I worked at the dealer. He fell in pretty hard with ectasy and the whole party crowd (he would roll for days on end), It got so bad he couldn't hold a job, nobody could talk any sense into him, girlfriend threw him out, so he bounced around between parties and couches, his money for drugs and rave tickets ran out, so he stole a truck and a gun from his dads house and held up four liqour stores in one night, got chased down the 5 by the CHP and wadded the stolen truck. I'm glad he didn't get shot. He would have never used the gun, it was an empty threat, but the cops don't know that and If they had shot him I would understand why. hmmm that reminds me of a rant I have.................

{stepping on to the soap box}

I'm sick of is all these f*ckin community leaders and soft hearted liberals that chastize the police for doing thier job. As far as I'm concerned, your dumb ass leads the police on a chase through compton at 3am in a stolen car, then you get out and run.....if you get the end of a MAGLITE a few times maybe it will knock some sense into your dumb ass, so the Rev. Jesse Jackson should STFU and try being in your guys shoes for a night in the rough neighbor hoods, same with the nut jobs at the ACLU and quit playin the Blame Game!!!!!!!!

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

That's a shitty story............better living through chemistry, right? Sorry to hear about it.

But it doesn't sound like he should be doing fed time, are you sure he's not in a state joint?

[madajb]

But it doesn't sound like he should be doing fed time, are you sure he's not in a state joint?
Did they ever pass the RAVE Act?
-ajb

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Yeah, it's now called the "Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act of 2003", but holding up liquor stores and running from the CHP with a gun in the truck is not a federal offense.

[madajb]

Yeah, it's now called the "Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act of 2003", but holding up liquor stores and running from the CHP with a gun in the truck is not a federal offense.
I duuno, maybe he had a crapload of Ectasy in the truck?
-ajb

[mike]

hes in landcaster, thats a fedral isn't it? 4 charges of armed robber, grand theft auto, illegal possesion of a weapon, posession of a stolen weapon, running from the cops (maybe he rammed a few of them) and he had a number of pills of E he had bought with the cash (that was his first stop) and probably some otherstuff I left out or did,nt name right. 21 years no parole, i'm not sure why. they pretty much threw the book at him

[Tom (aka Godzilla)]

Lancasters a state joint. Well, I hate to sound callous, but it sounds like he deserves the sentence that he got. Sad though.....

[FunkTron]

I duuno, maybe he had a crapload of Ectasy in the truck?
-ajb

ahh....one of those types of hiding places. :eek:

[mike]

hell yeah he deserved it, I feel sorry for him to a point. I feel sorry for the circumstances that brought this about, but then again we all go through hard times and problems and most people have thier head on level enough to pull through it. He's still my friend, but I have no sympathy for his actions, he did what he did and now he's paying.