army snipers accused of baiting "skinnys"

[JETTAone420]

are u fuckin kidding me?? these ddues are trying to KILL us!!...
see this is wehre too much politics comes into play. obviously if their takin the "bait" its cuz their gonna use it against us....i actually like the idea of that although it would take the fun of an easy target.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070925/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_snipers

[DTolo]

The negative to this, is that there are too many people out there that would take the items to turn in to the IPs hoping for a reward of some sort. Nobody will know that if the person took a dose of lead to the head.

[mike]

exactly, if they are taking them, then they know what to do with them, any stupid Iraqi would just leave them be. Its my opinion, that all these soldiers that are being brought up on manslaughter, murder charges, etc, is just wrong, you can't train them, give them a gun, drop them off in a country that hates them and wants them dead, then punish them, or make them second guess their decision which could get them killed. The politics are ridiculous, war is hell from what I can imagine, and yet I can't even contemplate or wrap my head around the things you guys do and have seen, I watched a guy harass a Nam vet I use to work with saying he killed innocent people, his reply, was something like this. "Well YOU ask them what side their on, and bet your life they answer truthfully or your dead, next time maybe they will wear a uniform for us" He looked like he was about to snap.

[RollinInGreenz]

"How can you tell 'em apart?"

"Anyone who runs, is a VC...anyone who stands still, is a well disciplined VC"

I would think this whole baiting thing is ridiculous if it didn't sound so effective. I mean shit...there should be no question here...you live in a country occupied by Foreign forces from abroad who are fighting an enemy that looks just like the you...probably not the best idea to go around collecting dropped ammo and weapons late at night...

I mean shit...when I see something of value lying on the ground (and this is Iraq, so how often can that really happen?) the first thing I think of is "I am being watched".

[DarkstaR]

exactly, if they are taking them, then they know what to do with them, any stupid Iraqi would just leave them be. Its my opinion, that all these soldiers that are being brought up on manslaughter, murder charges, etc, is just wrong, you can't train them, give them a gun, drop them off in a country that hates them and wants them dead, then punish them, or make them second guess their decision which could get them killed. The politics are ridiculous, war is hell from what I can imagine, and yet I can't even contemplate or wrap my head around the things you guys do and have seen, I watched a guy harass a Nam vet I use to work with saying he killed innocent people, his reply, was something like this. "Well YOU ask them what side their on, and bet your life they answer truthfully or your dead, next time maybe they will wear a uniform for us" He looked like he was about to snap.

I agree. There are too much politics when it comes to war. Its ridiculous.

[mario]

Dear American Gov't:

make levees, not war. k, thanks bye.

--My Tax Dollars.

PS: while you're at it, Corp of Engineers, would you be kind enough to fortify the infrastructure of our ports? thanks.

[mr_wrong]

Here's where I have a problem with this.

It's not the number of confirmed "kills", but rather the value of the target.

Shooting/killing a guy picking up a portion of det cord or some other battlefield trash doesn't qualify as a high-value target.

These methods aren't going to flush out this weeks #2 AlQeada (sp) guy, or any other high value targets.

[JETTAone420]

Shooting/killing a guy picking up a portion of det cord or some other battlefield trash doesn't qualify as a high-value target.

These methods aren't going to flush out this weeks #2 AlQeada (sp) guy, or any other high value targets.

no they wont but put it this way skinny#1 pics up det cord and some other explosive....

now lets fast-forward 2weeks
-----------------------------------------------------------------
unit AA is driving down a road.....now follow me....wait for it....




BLAM!!!


humvee #337 from unit AA now has 3 dead soldiers and the driver now has an arm and leg missing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now lets rewind....

if sniper joe would of taken out skinny#1 when he saw him pick up that det cord and other misc stuff he coulda just prevented another typical headline


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now lets recap....

is this a garunteed scenario EVERYTIME a skinny picks something up, answer : no
but i GARUNTEE thats what skinny#1,2,3,4,5,6,7,...etc is thinkin when they pick up misc materials like that, that can be used as detonation devices.

now i betcha the corn bread eatin mofo who's job to accuse these soldiers of doin shit like this DOESNT have their kids in the military.


/thread
(of course we wanna bash on the politcs somemore ...hehehe :rolleyes:)

[slowjet]

Id say give a slap on the wrist on them soldiers and let them walk. Then the Rangers can try a more appropriate approach to dealing with these terrorists. Now, f**k the the judge and those f**king peers whom are trying to slam all those charges on those guys. Lets see how well the prosecutor can fend for himself out there on the streets without the backup of our guys so the prick can rot. That is some real bullsh*t putting that kind of sh*t on those guys that are trying to come oup with ways to discourage terrorists. In this case the Geneva Convention should be thrown out the window since we are fighting an enemy who doesn't believe in it. Just my 2 cents.

[madajb]

no they wont but put it this way skinny#1 pics up det cord and some other explosive....

now lets fast-forward 2weeks
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Relatives of the guy the sniper killed, who, heretofore were willing to give this whole occupation a chance, join up with Insurgents-R-Us since we just killed their cousin/brother/nephew who, btw, was just picking up some dangerous crap in the road before a kid started playing with it.

Far-fetched? Probably. But part of being the good guys is playing by the rules and sniping people just because they picked up something _you_ left there, isn't playing by the rules.


-ajb

[madajb]

I agree. There are too much politics when it comes to war. Its ridiculous.

"War is merely a continuation of politics"
-- Clausewitz

-ajb

[JETTAone420]

Relatives of the guy the sniper killed, who, heretofore were willing to give this whole occupation a chance, join up with Insurgents-R-Us since we just killed their cousin/brother/nephew who, btw, was just picking up some dangerous crap in the road before a kid started playing with it.

Far-fetched? Probably. But part of being the good guys is playing by the rules and sniping people just because they picked up something _you_ left there, isn't playing by the rules.


-ajb

good point...let me ask u this have u ever seen REAL insurgents? now im not saying all are identical but the ones ive seen taht arent masked all looked alike...shaved cleanly without headrags. and that was just in the sunni triangle providence. and besides the local nationals have known our presence long enough to know when not to get in the way of missions. but yea i get your whole explanation of it and playing the good guy role to other places lolz

[madajb]

now im not saying all are identical but the ones ive seen taht arent masked all looked alike...
...
and besides the local nationals have known our presence long enough to know when not to get in the way of missions.
So..you're saying that civilians over there should just ignore anything dangerous lying about on the off-chance that it's bait and they're mistaken for an insurgent?
I'm not sure I follow.

-ajb

[JETTAone420]

no im saying the ones with any type of common sense wont mess with it and if tehy do their VERY hesitant on it. insurgents know what their grabbing. and like i said yuo can tell somewhat whos who...

[madajb]

no im saying the ones with any type of common sense wont mess with it and if tehy do their VERY hesitant on it. insurgents know what their grabbing. and like i said yuo can tell somewhat whos who...

Ah, gotcha.
Yes, I agree it's probably fairly obvious who is up to no good and who is simply a concerned citizen.
However, I'm still not convinced that justifies "baiting".
A grey moral line to be sure, but lines have to be drawn somewhere.

-ajb

[JETTAone420]

and this is what sparks the whole debate...

at the expense of soldiers lives?

[madajb]

and this is what sparks the whole debate...

at the expense of soldiers lives?

So, the ends justify the means?

-ajb

[JETTAone420]

no but its jsut a revolving circle of issues...

[lordoftheblings]

regarding the bringing up charges on soldiers, I don't recall anywhere (maybe it's because im not serving) but rape and murdering (not killing in action) families isn't anywhere in any military manual as acceptable.

[PhätTony]

Tell you what, all of us gotta stand before those pearly gates sometime or another... each of us has our own guilt we live with too. So those snipers out there that were 'ordered' to kill had a choice to make. Free Will is what it comes down to. Which path are you gonna take? You'll have to answer for it in the end. Well not before the guilt kills you.

[lordoftheblings]

stand before the pearly gates! haha!
Theres the life you have, how you live it, what you stand for and nothing else. No great after-life, no roads in heaven to autocross on. It's just what you do here and now.

I've been hearing people whose house werent bured down when everyone else's was saying shit like "God was watching out for us."

Yes, you're exemplary people and the rest of the poor bastards who just lost their houses were all godforsaken heathens.

Im not against these snipers, anyone going after weapons in the middle of a warzone is (as far as im concerned the enemy) I am however against raping of people and blaming it on war. It was a choice, you made it (no matter how bad you thought your situation was) now deal with the hand you've dealt yourself.

blame no one else.

[PhätTony]

stand before the pearly gates! haha!
Theres the life you have, how you live it, what you stand for and nothing else. No great after-life, no roads in heaven to autocross on. It's just what you do here and now.

I've been hearing people whose house werent bured down when everyone else's was saying shit like "God was watching out for us."

Yes, you're exemplary people and the rest of the poor bastards who just lost their houses were all godforsaken heathens.

Im not against these snipers, anyone going after weapons in the middle of a warzone is (as far as im concerned the enemy) I am however against raping of people and blaming it on war. It was a choice, you made it (no matter how bad you thought your situation was) now deal with the hand you've dealt yourself.

blame no one else.

WORD!