Illegal immigrant kills father, two sons for road rage....

[mike]

Lets see what you "pro illegal immigrant" people have to say now...... He was a known gang member of MS-13, arrested 3 times, but not deported due to S.F. bleeding heart liberals designating it a "sanctuary city" with no fear of deportation. I hope the mans family, the surviving ones anyway, sues the shit out of the city for change............

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080724/ap_on_re_us/road_rage_killing

[BexSoCal]

If this isn't reason enough to be against Illegal Immigration then you have either no heart, no conscience or no sense.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9974463?source=most_emailed

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/20/MNK011MAFR.DTL

[mike]

We posted this at the SAME TIME! This calls for a drink!

[mike]

Mods combine the threads???

[BexSoCal]

We posted this at the SAME TIME! This calls for a drink!

I agree.

I'm picking up some Absinthe after work. Care to dance with the Green Fairy?

:tup:

[bugzy]

Mods combine the threads???
done

[oc-audica]

I agree.

I'm picking up some Absinthe after work. Care to dance with the Green Fairy?

:tup:
awww what none for me?

[BexSoCal]

This may be a solution to the problem.

We can't get our Gov't to uphold it's own laws so if citizens start suing the crap out of Cities, States and Businesses for stuff like this it may finally get them to act lest go broke.

[BexSoCal]

awww what none for me?

Party at Becca's!

EDM? Kelly Girl? etc Care to join us.

LOL

[mike]

The next ETG!

Seriously, this is the exact reason we should be LEGALLY able to carry a firearm with us at all times.

[Monster8V]

I never get picked.....

[mike]

Picked to have a drink with, or shot at by an illegal immigrant gang bangin piece of shit?

[oc-audica]

I never get picked.....
you can be etc like me!

[Monster8V]

Picked to have a drink with, or shot at by an illegal immigrant gang bangin piece of shit?


Ive already been shot at by all kinds of races and affiliations.

I was going more for the drink part. Without being the ECT guy.

[mike]

Fuck, I'll buy you a bottle!

[CALL AAA]

I always find it funny how, in conversation, "illegal immigration" is referred to as if it was a governmment program or a new medical breakthrough or something.
It's a fucking CRIME!

[wikedgolf]

like i've all ways said... there's good and bad in every one.

if your going to be in this country illegally, you ass better be on your best behavior and not get cuaght. If you fuck up, why should we pay for it... if they arrested, they should be deported. No if, ands, or buts about it. Let the good ones stay, get rid of the shitty ones

[MikekiM]

if your going to be in this country illegally, you ass better be on your best behavior and not get cuaght. If you fuck up, why should we pay for it... if they arrested, they should be deported. No if, ands, or buts about it. Let the good ones stay, get rid of the shitty ones

The flaw with this logic is you don't know who's good and who's bad until AFTER a crime is committed. In some cases these peoples first crimes are very serious felonies like murder or rape. In essence, you're giving everyone who's undocumented 1 free crime until they're arrested, that then shows they're a bad apple. Isn't it too late then?

[mario]

[i must confess I didn't read the whole article. . . I have a headache and feel sick]


but WHAT does his immigration status have to do with the crime? There's good and bad illegal immigrants just like there's good and bad black people, white people, asians, legal immigrants, etc. . .


the dude shot and killed several people. he should go to jail for life. whether or not he was illegal is inconsequential.


(the argument that if they'd deported him when they could won't hold any water. . . having deported HIM may have avoided THIS crime. . . ut this sort of crime is common-place in our society. . .and quite frankly this case probably would have gotten very little (if any) press if it weren't for his immigration status. . . that's like blaming the bat for barry bonds taking steroids).

[BexSoCal]

but WHAT does his immigration status have to do with the crime?



EVERYTHING!

He shouldn't be here. If this sorry pathetic piece of garbage was deported these people would still be alive today and a family would not be mourning the horrible horrific execution of three of their loved ones.

[mitssn]

Open Season!!!

[PhätTony]

EVERYTHING!

He shouldn't be here. If this sorry pathetic piece of garbage was deported these people would still be alive today and a family would not be mourning the horrible horrific execution of three of their loved ones.

I think what your saying is send them all back. Doesnt matter when, how, why they came here. Illegal immigration is wrong... we all know that. It's probably the world 'illegal' that gives it away huh? yeah. So send all the people from every single country back home. The brits, the mexicans, the french, the germans, the japanese, chinese, iranians, Russians...everyone! Send them all back if they are here past their visa expirations if they have one. Send them back. Doesnt matter if they face death in some of these countries if they do go back from attempting to live a religious free, belief free life for them and their loved ones.

Hey question....what if the family in that car that was slain...well, what if they were illegal immigrants and the man who shot them; what if he was a born and bred american?

Would you say: Well, it wouldn't have happened if they were in their own country. Would you say that Bex? :(

[v2rocket]

the dude shot and killed several people. he should go to jail for life. whether or not he was illegal is inconsequential.


he should die....slowly and horribly.....by my hand it would be glorious!

[v2rocket]

i also feel that alot of people who are for the illegal immigrants tend to forget one thing....

ILLEGAL immigrant is not the same as a LEGAL immigrant.

you know we should get all uppity and start a new debate

illegal racing vs legal racing....its similar to the immigrant debate right? both debates have the same main subject being immigration or racing but its a debate about the different versions of racing or immigration.

[v2rocket]

Hey question....what if the family in that car that was slain...well, what if they were illegal immigrants and the man who shot them; what if he was a born and bred american?

Would you say: Well, it wouldn't have happened if they were in their own country. Would you say that Bex? :(

#1 i wouldnt care so much. it would send a nice message to the illegals that we are starting to get ticked off.

#2 if it did or didnt happen in their own country the majority of people here wouldnt care. many people in our country die everyday and we dont see britain wanting to get involved in our mess.

[mike]

He shouldn't be here, PERIOD, he should have been deported, PERIOD when he was caught the first time.

I'm all for kicking out ANYONE who's paperwork isn't in order or is here illegally, which is what I could expect in just about any country I stay past my visa or jump their border.

If the family he killed was illegal also, does it really matter? IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPORTED WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

A guy killing most of a family due to road rage with an AK47 is big time news, regardless.

I hate to paint the wall with a single brush stroke, but I like to be efficient, and in the name of efficiency, If I can cover 95% of a wall with a single brush stroke, so be it. Most illegals here, more specifically from Mexico, do not contribute positively to our society unless you need your house painted or lawn cut. I do recognize there are people here on visas, work or school related, I know a few people in this situation working their ass of paying taxes and following the path to citizen ship.

My personal feelings on this matter, on gangs like this, or any other scum bag that shoots an unarmed person in a fit of road rage (I could add lots to this list) line them in a ditch, empty a few drums of .223, fill in with dirt and lye and repeat.

[mike]

What about the blood bath that is Mexico? NO elected official that isn't bribed can walk on the street with out fear of being killed, its a war zone in the streets, one reason their "President" lives in Europe.

They are turning this place into a shit hole third world country, I work in Santa Ana, nothing but gangs, poverty, crime, daily shootings, people who sit around all day not working pushing strollers full of kids.

All these "Sanctuary cities" such as Santa Ana, SF and others need to wise up.

[mike]

i also feel that alot of people who are for the illegal immigrants tend to forget one thing....

ILLEGAL immigrant is not the same as a LEGAL immigrant.

you know we should get all uppity and start a new debate

illegal racing vs legal racing....its similar to the immigrant debate right? both debates have the same main subject being immigration or racing but its a debate about the different versions of racing or immigration.

+++REP+++++

:tup2:

[v2rocket]

I'm all for kicking out ANYONE who's paperwork isn't in order or is here illegally, which is what I could expect in just about any country I stay past my visa or jump their border.

My personal feelings on this matter, on gangs like this, or any other scum bag that shoots an unarmed person in a fit of road rage (I could add lots to this list) line them in a ditch, empty a few drums of .223, fill in with dirt and lye and repeat.

1 i dont know about the paperwork not being in order part, mistakes do happen (we all know those crazy government file clerks) but it would be nice to have a very thorough check before kicking anyone out. i say this only because i was born in japan yet i am an american citizen, but my birth certificate would be a huge pain in the ass to reobtain if i ever lost it. so we gotta look out for similar scenarios.

2 no need to waste ammo! thats precious stuff i say dig the ditch and either bury them alive in cement or we can set them on fire and make smores :) nothing like chocolatey marshmallowy graham crackery goodness set to the music of screams and pain. delish!

[mike]

What I meant by that statement, is getting a visa, and being here YEARS after it expires.

True, due to the war, .223 is hard to come by and a little pricey, 7.62 is still a cheap Commie round, not to mention more powerful, I have plenty of it I would be willing to donate to the cause of cleaning the streets!

[PhätTony]

1 i dont know about the paperwork not being in order part, mistakes do happen (we all know those crazy government file clerks) but it would be nice to have a very thorough check before kicking anyone out. i say this only because i was born in japan yet i am an american citizen, but my birth certificate would be a huge pain in the ass to reobtain if i ever lost it. so we gotta look out for similar scenarios.

ever moonwalk before? looks like since you fall under the "paperwork" issue, there's got to be a break somewhere. Funny guy, you.

2 no need to waste ammo! thats precious stuff i say dig the ditch and either bury them alive in cement or we can set them on fire and make smores :) nothing like chocolatey marshmallowy graham crackery goodness set to the music of screams and pain. delish!

Either you've been watching way too much Power Rangers, or your kinda not right in the head. Who wishes this stuff?

[v2rocket]

ever moonwalk before? looks like since you fall under the "paperwork" issue, there's got to be a break somewhere. Funny guy, you.

im just saying one mess up that isnt the legal immigrants fault could land the wrong person in the wrong place. for the sake of order if implemented it would have to go through its checks and balances, im all for keeping the legal ones and all for kicking illegal ones out.




Either you've been watching way too much Power Rangers, or your kinda not right in the head. Who wishes this stuff?

not power rangers mostly alot of fps games. they make fragging fun and humorous!

George Carlin wishes similar things onto people...i guess im a comedian too! :tup2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBkYi0TVqwM

[TOYr32]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/Tonkatoy163/Emoticons/65.gif

[Monster8V]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/Tonkatoy163/Emoticons/65.gif


I dont like your tune, Mister!:D

[TOYr32]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/Tonkatoy163/Emoticons/102.gif

[mario]

EVERYTHING!

He shouldn't be here. If this sorry pathetic piece of garbage was deported these people would still be alive today and a family would not be mourning the horrible horrific execution of three of their loved ones.

so for EVERY illegal immigrant in the US that commits a violent crime, Mexico and latin american countries should be allowed to imprison and subsequently deport every American criminal that commits a violent crime in their respective countries. . .does that sound fair?

[TOYr32]

so for EVERY illegal immigrant in the US that commits a violent crime, Mexico and latin american countries should be allowed to imprison and subsequently deport every American criminal that commits a violent crime in their respective countries. . .does that sound fair?

Hmmm . . . that's an interesting point. What if they deported them back to the custody of the respective country, then allow that country to punish for the crime accordingly.

I do think that the home country is responsible for it's citizens, no matter where they are in the world. That why our gov has education and stuff. to provide it's citizens with an ability to properly and proudly represent our country. (Which we all know ends up being BS)

[mario]

Hmmm . . . that's an interesting point. What if they deported them back to the custody of the respective country, then allow that country to punish for the crime accordingly.

I do think that the home country is responsible for it's citizens, no matter where they are in the world. That why our gov has education and stuff. to provide it's citizens with an ability to properly and proudly represent our country. (Which we all know ends up being BS)

I whole-heartly agree...a country is responsible for its citizens no matter where in the world they are. . .including all the US drug runners and money launderers throughout the world. . .



(edit: MY POINT IS: some illegal citizens commit violent crimes on US soil (I would go out on a limb and say that they commit violent crimes at a much, much, much lower rate than citizens or otherwise legal immigrants). . . but US citizens commit a high amount of violent crimes in latin american countries, too. . .for diff reasons, but a murder is a murder)

[1995_e36M3Blue]

I saw a great thing a week or so back. all the home depots have now made it against thier policies to allow illegas to loiter on thier lots. they will recieve 1 warning from a security officer who are armed with tazers btw, and the second is a forcefull removal. i shook the gaurds hand, told him "thats a good thing your doing here sir, thank you."

[mario]

I saw a great thing a week or so back. all the home depots have now made it against thier policies to allow illegas to loiter on thier lots. they will recieve 1 warning from a security officer who are armed with tazers btw, and the second is a forcefull removal. i shook the gaurds hand, told him "thats a good thing your doing here sir, thank you."

I somewhat agree. . . it's a danger and a nuisance. . .and I respect private property rights so yeah. . .(I guess I'd want to know what "forceful removal" entails because I can see the potential for people getting very, very, very carried away with this).

[1995_e36M3Blue]

I somewhat agree. . . it's a danger and a nuisance. . .and I respect private property rights so yeah. . .(I guess I'd want to know what "forceful removal" entails because I can see the potential for people getting very, very, very carried away with this).

it is what it sounds like, home depot has now decided (finally) that it is time to say that the illegals are tresspassing on thier property which is btw considered private, so the methods used for removal of said intruders is entirely at thier descretion. Like i said they are giving the gaurds Tasers so use your imagination.

BTW if anyone including myself happens to witness this miricle of electricy whip out that phone a record it and post the video here.

[mike]

Home Deport.............

[1995_e36M3Blue]

Home Deport.............

lol we know where they hangt between 630 and 12 in the morning... lets all go and organize the euro deportation services. we can use rabbits and minis as our border patrol wagons. lol but yeah i hate illegals, i used to live off van buren and wells in riverside so my hatred has a valid reason to it.

[mike]

I work in Santa Ana, so when we go to lunch, sometimes we go to the little restaurants in the same plaza as the Home Deport, we took one of the guys trucks in the shop, all the illegals were standing in the entrance, when we pulled in, I reached over and honked the horn at them, they all came running and piled in the bed of his truck, LOL, we had to yell at them to get out, then went to eat somewhere else................ HA

[Anonymous]

it is what it sounds like, home depot has now decided (finally) that it is time to say that the illegals are tresspassing on thier property which is btw considered private, so the methods used for removal of said intruders is entirely at thier descretion. Like i said they are giving the gaurds Tasers so use your imagination.

BTW if anyone including myself happens to witness this miricle of electricy whip out that phone a record it and post the video here.

irc security guards are not allowed to physically remove anyone for trespassing. It's private property but it is also a public place. I believe the correct procedure would be to call the police to do the removal. This would be the same if you were asked to leave their store. If you refuse they can not physically remove you but if the police have to you can be arrested for trespassing.

[mike]

irc security guards are not allowed to physically remove anyone for trespassing. It's private property but it is also a public place. I believe the correct procedure would be to call the police to do the removal. This would be the same if you were asked to leave their store. If you refuse they can not physically remove you but if the police have to you can be arrested for trespassing.

Truth

[1995_e36M3Blue]

yes BUT it is the case and thats what they do, my uncle works there at the one in corona and they had a big ol' meeting about it saying that the gaurds AND if need be the employees do have the ability to forcefully remove the dayworkers and dayworkers only. this ability does not at all apply to removal of unrully customers or other individuals.

[TOYr32]

I'm not gonna be a hypocrit, I used some to help me move. I felt bad until one of them took a dump in my toilet and clogged it, and left it, and didn't tell anyone!

[Anonymous]

yes BUT it is the case and thats what they do, my uncle works there at the one in corona and they had a big ol' meeting about it saying that the gaurds AND if need be the employees do have the ability to forcefully remove the dayworkers and dayworkers only. this ability does not at all apply to removal of unrully customers or other individuals.

They would then be breaking the law by assaulting people. Home Depot can't grant their workers abilities that would make them immune to the law.

[mike]

A friend of mine also hired some to help him move, he was on the third floor, half way through, they said it was too much work, wanted more money, which he wouldn't pay so they wanted to leave and get paid for the work they had done, he told them finish the job or get nothing, so they left with no pay.

[chris]

Regardless of legality, these pieces of shyte don't need to be deported or sent to jail..they need the death penalty! A life for a life...I'm sick of hearing about all these wack jobs being sent to jail where we have to pay to feed and educate them :mad:

[paultakeda]

Lets see what you "pro illegal immigrant" people have to say now

Because only illegal immigrants are gang members and subject to murderous road rage.

[mike]

Because only illegal immigrants are gang members and subject to murderous road rage.

This statement was made because A: he is an illegal B: should have been deported when he was caught C: a gang member D: killed a father and his sons.

[paultakeda]

This statement was made because A: he is an illegal B: should have been deported when he was caught C: a gang member D: killed a father and his sons.

A and B have nothing to do with C or D, your cause and effect are invalid.

[mike]

C and D have to do with A and B, If his ass was deported the first time, he wouldn't have been able to associate with his gang in this country, or kill three people in this country, so how do YOU figure it doesn't?

[paultakeda]

Frankly, because it doesn't.

You are suggesting that by being an illegal immigrant you are a gang member and a murderer. Such a blanket, illogical statement can have far-reaching implications were this used as an example to pass yet another reactionary law that solves nothing.

[Monster8V]

Frankly, because it doesn't.

You are suggesting that by being an illegal immigrant you are a gang member and a murderer. Such a blanket, illogical statement can have far-reaching implications were this used as an example to pass yet another reactionary law that solves nothing.


Non of the sort.
Whats hard to understand that if, at the time he was caught, he was deported. But no, he was in a sanctuary city who protected his "rights as an illegal alien" and kept him in country.

We know the rest of the story. Or can you twist it into something else its not as well? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[paultakeda]

By providing a direct relationship between the two by virtue of a single example is what twists the argument into something entirely unwholesome.

You cannot use the latter to justify unilateral actions on the former.

[Monster8V]

So, your saying that I cant suggest that IF they had deported his ass, like they should have, like we expect them to, then by his having been deported he would have killed anyways?

[mike]

Frankly, because it doesn't.

You are suggesting that by being an illegal immigrant you are a gang member and a murderer. Such a blanket, illogical statement can have far-reaching implications were this used as an example to pass yet another reactionary law that solves nothing.

NO, my statement is not a blanket, think a little more clearly. If he had been deported when he was FIRST arrested, then none of this would have happened. Instead he was arrested THREE times, in a sanctuary city where pro illegal immigration attitude has the upper hand in the bleeding heart liberal government, where he was thrown back out in to the population because the city refused to cooperate with immigration authorities, where he was free to associate with his gang, able to illegally obtain a firearm (coincidentally a firearm that NOBODY in this state can legally purchase since the end of 1999), and kill three people. Where in ANY of my statements did I declare ALL illegal immigrants to be gang member thugs? I didn't. I expected better then this argument from you since you are one of the more intelligent posters here, maybe you misread my statement, AGAIN.

[lordoftheblings]

Deporting him might not have changed anything. He got here illegally once, is a gang member and probably would have returned. You cant stop illegal immigration, you just cant. It's like fighting a war on stupidity, you just wont and cant win.

Yes, he should have been deported, no doubt about that. But can you really blame a person for wanting to come here? And the legal route is sooo long and tennious that people want to escape the poverty and want to provide better lives for themselves.

You'd better believe that if I was living in a dirty poor country and some hundred miles away was a oasis that i'd do everything in my power to get there.

Lets not forget to that most "illegals" arent paid under the table in california. Business owners need to protect themselves from the federal government wanting it's income tax. Most illegals in this state are using bogus or duplicate social security numbers. That means they are paying into a system they can never use. Income tax is still being paid, social security is still being paid.

They contribute to a system they can never fully take advantage of.

[Monster8V]

yeah right. Sure.

[paultakeda]

NO, my statement is not a blanket, think a little more clearly. If he had been deported when he was FIRST arrested, then none of this would have happened. Instead he was arrested THREE times, in a sanctuary city where pro illegal immigration attitude has the upper hand in the bleeding heart liberal government, where he was thrown back out in to the population because the city refused to cooperate with immigration authorities, where he was free to associate with his gang, able to illegally obtain a firearm (coincidentally a firearm that NOBODY in this state can legally purchase since the end of 1999), and kill three people. Where in ANY of my statements did I declare ALL illegal immigrants to be gang member thugs? I didn't. I expected better then this argument from you since you are one of the more intelligent posters here, maybe you misread my statement, AGAIN.

Your first sentence in the opening post of this thread asks what do "pro illegal immigrants" have to say regarding this case. This very opening expects that this example of a criminal exploiting the sanctuary policies of a city is a reason why such policies should not be maintained.

This is a direct link between the actions of an individual to a policy intended to address a body of individuals, hence, whether you yourself realize or not, you have suggested that whether or not an illegal immigrant is a gang member/murderer, to prevent the possibility of providing sanctuary to such a person you believe the policies of sanctuary are untenable. That is an implicit suggestion that the actions of the one are implicated on the many.

Why else would the responses in this thread directly make that correlation?

You might suggest that San Francisco, wishing to maintain its sanctuary policy, should institute clauses concerning the provision of sanctuary to an illegal immigrant arrested for a felony. But by directing the argument into an all or nothing debate on illegal immigration due to the actions of a criminal leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and should do so regardless of your position on illegal immigration.

Your ad hominem statement in the end will be ignored.

[Monster8V]

Wtf.....

[SYNYSTAGLI]

kill the motherfucker already ;)

[paultakeda]

So, your saying that I cant suggest that IF they had deported his ass, like they should have, like we expect them to, then by his having been deported he would have killed anyways?

What I don't like are statements that directly address the issue of illegal immigration using this example as a reason to deport any and all en masse.

Any individual on American soil committing a crime should be tried by the American justice system. That this gives an illegal immigrant "one free crime" can be directed at any person, including citizens, and therefore is not an argument for blanket deportation without categorizing an entire class as criminal.

If you have an issue with this person exploiting the sanctuary policy, then yes, I agree. His first crime should have caused deportation. If you extend the issue beyond this single exploit, then no, I do not agree. As you were responding to my post I assumed you were promoting the latter. If that is not what you were doing and simply addressing this particular case, then we are in agreement with the former.

[mario]

it is what it sounds like, home depot has now decided (finally) that it is time to say that the illegals are tresspassing on thier property which is btw considered private, so the methods used for removal of said intruders is entirely at thier descretion. Like i said they are giving the gaurds Tasers so use your imagination.



actually. . .NO, it's not at their discretion the method used to remove someone from their property. . .


(just because someone is trespassing, you can't just shoot them. . .unless (maybe) you are in texas).

[FunkTron]

illegal = criminal..................get em the fuck out until they can do it the legal way......I have several friends who have.....and so should the rest.

get rid of his ass.....he's taking up my parking.

[lordoftheblings]

yeah right. Sure.


care to expand on that nugget of wisdom you've just dropped? Just because it doenst fit within your package of how "the world works" doesnt mean it's not true. the bigger issue here isnt immigration (legal or illegal) it's a justice system that rewards criminals with a environment for committing crimes.

"• Illegal immigrants don't increase your taxes.
Surveys of immigrants show that they actually come with the expectation that welfare and social service benefits will not be available to them. What's more, per capita, they actually use welfare benefits less than the native population. Studies show that only 2% of Mexican immigrants have ever used welfare or social security and only 3% have ever used food stamps. In comparison, 84% pay income tax and none of them file a return. Because so many of them pay into the tax and social security and Medicaid systems without being able to retrieve any of that money or benefits, the government actually makes a substantial profit on each illegal who comes here. This has resulted in a surplus in social security funds of more than $50 billion a year just from payments applied to fictional social security numbers. After factoring in services provided, on average during his time in the US, an illegal immigrant will contribute $80,000 more to the government than he consumes in services. The one negative tax impact is that they act to transfer money from the states who pay most of the services, especially education, to the federal government which gets most of the tax benefits.

• A more open immigration policy will not lead to a flood of new immigrants.
The vast majority of undocumented immigrants return to their home countries after spending a limited time in the US and most (64.7%) come to the US for a year or less to work and then go home. What's more, they don't breed like rabbits as many have suggested. Mexicans have 2.3 children per mother, only slightly higher than the birth rate in the US. Mexico has only a 2% annual growth in population, slightly higher than the US, but low compared to many other nations. All of this argues very strongly for the effectiveness of a guest worker type program, suggesting that most workers would use it if it was available rather than accepting 'amnesty' if offered.

• Undocumented immigrants aren't necessarily the poor refuse of the world.
Mexico is hardly an impoverished nation overall. They have a higher GDP per capita and higher wages than most nations and a relatively low cost of living. The average wage is higher than anywhere else in South and Central America, including fairly prosperous nations like Brazil. Real poor people can't afford to travel to another country to earn better wages - they're too downtrodden. Mexicans can come here because they have the resources and skills to make it practical and worthwhile. What's more, Mexicans like the life they have in Mexico. A peculiar survey conducted in 2004 determined that Mexico is the second 'happiest' country in the world in terms of how satisfied their population is with the life they have. The US ranked 15th.

• Mexican immigrants are not criminals.
Despite some highly publicized groups who have come into the U.S. from other countries and gone into organized crime - mostly legal immigrants from countries like El Salvador - immigrants as a whole are no more inclined to commit crimes than our native population. When compared by age, the crime and incarceration rates for Mexican immigrants are roughly equal to the general population and much better than most other legal and illegal immigrant groups. Perhaps if we could get past the issue of illegal Mexican immigration, we could crack down on the Cubans, Dominicans, Eastern Europeans, Asians, and Salvadorans who commit most of the immigrant crime.

• Immigrant workers do not take jobs from natives or lower the overall working wage.
While the presence of immigrant workers does reduce the cost of goods and services for consumers, this is not because they lower wages, but, because without their presence, those jobs would go unfilled. According to one analysis, we would end up with 2.5 million jobs which could not be filled, leading to business closures and inflation. It might even ultimately lead to more unemployment among native workers. The skills of natives who are out of work and the skills of undocumented immigrants are different, so natives would not take the jobs which would become available if the illegals were deported. 84% of unemployed natives have at least a high-school education, while most illegal immigrants from Mexico have less than a high-school degree. However, undocumented workers are not necessarily low paid. They may have skills and family connections which can get them well-paid, reliable employment at well above minimum wage. Even for day laborers, the median hourly wage is still around $10. On average, undocumented workers earn about $2 less per hour than documented workers in the same jobs, a difference which accurately represents the added risk and expense of hiring them. They are good at economizing and most send substantial amounts of money home to Mexico to the point where they contribute $20 billion a year to the Mexican economy which is about 3% of the Mexican GDP. Workers used to a third-world lifestyle and earning $10 a day can do very well earning that much an hour in the US.

What all this tells us is that while working here benefits illegals and Mexico, it also benefits the United States and our population in a number of ways. Immigrants are doing jobs which might go unfilled without them, keeping inflation down and contributing disproportionately to our tax and social program revenues. What's more, most of the negatives applied to them by those who'd like to close the borders appear not to be true. They don't want to flood the country and take over. They don't even want to stay here in most cases. They aren't taking jobs that Americans are willing or qualified to do. They aren't committing lots of crimes. They aren't living off of welfare or sucking up social services. They just come here to work and make their lives better.

What's also clear from the evidence is that a straightforward guest worker program would solve most of the problems currently associated with illegal immigration. It's likely that 80% of the currently undocumented workers would be perfectly satisfied with temporary worker status, leaving only a small portion of the population who would need to either be deported or put into the regular channels for immigration, perhaps with a somewhat expanded quota for immigrants from Mexico. Implementing a guest worker program and a somewhat higher immigration quota for Mexico would end the problem of illegal immigration without filling our country with huge numbers of low-skill immigrants or the vast expense of mass deportation and radically increased border security. The lower cost and practicality of this approach to the issue would free up valuable resources for much more serious border concerns like protecting the nation from those who are taking advantage of the current border chaos to enter the country with the intent to do harm.

Find a way to accommodate the illegals who just want to work, and we can focus on the criminal gangs and potential terrorists. Those who think this problem can be solved by building walls, laying minefields, and deploying troops on the border are either ill-informed and bigoted, or they are political opportunists serving some agenda other than actually solving the problem."

quoted from Dave Nalle

Analysis of taxes paid by illegal immigrants
http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

[Monster8V]

Post some fact and not some libertarian drivel. Then I might listen to you. otherwise, bugger off.

[lordoftheblings]

this probably isnt factual either is it?
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=415

these probably arent factual based studies/reports either.
http://http://migramatters.blogspot.com/2005/10/get-facts-on-immigration.html

but whatever, your probably right, because your kind is always right. jog on.

[v2rocket]

yes if all illegals were gone we would run out of jobs for a little

but then alot of people would move in to take those jobs. or we can fill them with all those happy homeless people we have in san diego.

also my friend sitting right next to me is 2nd generation legal mexican immigrant. but his grandfather was an illegal, he was kicked out and came back LEGALLY. even he says the illegals should fuck off.

[lordoftheblings]

you're naive and retarded if you think that were true. There's plenty of people without jobs and i dont seem them rushing to take low pay jobs like migrant workers do. Without migrant workers fucking strawberries would be $15.00 pound.

like it or not, legal and sometimes or often illegal migrant workers help drive our economy. Most of which are paying into a tax system they cannot use.

If you guys want to be angry at someone, why not be angry at the federal government who collects those profits paid into social security and welfare and medacare then never returns them to the state which supply the funds and could use them the most.

[christian18t]

wow theres so much hate in this thread. i hope its not racism against mexicans or other race i hope its just about legality.

[mike]

It is for peoples legal status, some people here have a hard time seeing through that. I have friends from all reaches of the world, that have come here legally.

Obviously we can't kick them all out, unfortunately, that means some sort of a worker plan where they all have to register, start paying taxes, and some fines, but at the same time, like I said earlier, we need to secure our borders also..............

[lordoftheblings]

Sorry for the bad link above, here's the correct one
http://migramatters.blogspot.com/2005/10/get-facts-on-immigration.html

[1995_e36M3Blue]

I'm not saying they can "assault" them, or shoot them, i said forcefull removal. like security can throw you (literally) off an airplae in a terminal the same is possible for employees of Home Depot. If said illegals are found present on property a second time they may by draged, pushed, or pulled off property and for the safty of the employees and security personel home depot has provided them with tasers which may or maynot be used to easy the removal.

[PhätTony]

I'm not saying they can "assault" them, or shoot them, i said forcefull removal. like security can throw you (literally) off an airplae in a terminal the same is possible for employees of Home Depot. If said illegals are found present on property a second time they may by draged, pushed, or pulled off property and for the safty of the employees and security personel home depot has provided them with tasers which may or maynot be used to easy the removal.

That means they will call in personnel (police) to do so. HD employees or any employee of any company cannot touch any other person in any manner while on duty. That is automatic fire on the spot. Due to the fact that said company the employee works for can be sued. Illegal or resident, you can sue anyone, anytime, anywhere. You don't need to be a resident of that state or country. Tourists do it all the time here.

[PhätTony]

wow theres so much hate in this thread. i hope its not racism against mexicans (chopped)

Underneath the blanket I really dont know.... but I do know that the world "ILLEGAL" is not limited to mexicans as we have seen in this thread. Let's widen up the range please folks. Add some asians in here or some euro-fobs please.:D

[TOYr32]

That means they will call in personnel (police) to do so. HD employees or any employee of any company cannot touch any other person in any manner while on duty. That is automatic fire on the spot. Due to the fact that said company the employee works for can be sued. Illegal or resident, you can sue anyone, anytime, anywhere. You don't need to be a resident of that state or country. Tourists do it all the time here.

Toursist can do it because they are here under legal status (passports), illegals can't sue unless they have documentation showing their legal status.

Mario??

[PhätTony]

Toursist can do it because they are here under legal status (passports), illegals can't sue unless they have documentation showing their legal status.

Mario??

objection! not true......Mario!!!!!

[TOYr32]

objection! not true......Mario!!!!!

I retract my statement. I saw some lawsuit for immigrants suing a firm for unpaid wages.

This country sucks!

[PhätTony]

I retract my statement. I saw some lawsuit for immigrants suing a firm for unpaid wages.

This country sucks!

was it the wendy's or wal-mart?

[mike]

Difference between Mexican Illegals and the rest is they are a MAJORITY of the issue, like I said earlier, are more then less productive at becoming a contributor to our society and assimilate to our countries way of life. The rest for the most part, keep quiet and work and stay under the radar.

[TOYr32]

janitorial firm

[Anonymous]

I'm not saying they can "assault" them, or shoot them, i said forcefull removal. like security can throw you (literally) off an airplae in a terminal the same is possible for employees of Home Depot. If said illegals are found present on property a second time they may by draged, pushed, or pulled off property and for the safty of the employees and security personel home depot has provided them with tasers which may or maynot be used to easy the removal.

as*sault
–noun
1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition.
2. Law. an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner.

I don't see how it would be possible to forcefully remove someone without assaulting them. This sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially the taser bit.

http://8.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/3/2/bustedtees.693be963ee3f80d0e3ef2b62621efeb2.jpg

[PhätTony]

I'd tase her!

[mike]

IMO, follow the officers orders, or you get what you get................

[Anonymous]

IMO, follow the officers orders, or you get what you get................

?? We're talking about security guards/Home Depot employees not police officers.

[TOYr32]

Unfortunately, rent a cops count. But most people don't give them any credit.

[mike]

I thought we had established rent-a-cops could do nothing and the cops have been called, my mistake.

IMO also, my property, if I want you off, you better get off and I should have the right to remove you without police assistance.

[PhätTony]

would you?

[mike]

Personally yes, If I owned a store and a group of people were assembling in front of my business for no other purpose then to protest on MY property and block access to my business costing me money, break the law, or be a nuisance, then I would remove them, or have them removed if it was a situation that I felt might get out of control or I couldn't handle.

Would YOU?

[PhätTony]

no, what I meant was... do you take rent-a-cop's seriously? Tell me you don't clown them.

[mike]

Oh dude, HAHAHAHA, I yelled at one trying to write me a ticket in my own neighbor hood for backing my GLI into a parking space, me and my buddy were in my garage, coincidentally enough looking through the gun cabinet...... he looked like the skinny pimply kid on the Simpsons thats always working at krusty burger...

Me yelling from my garage "HEY, get away from my car!"

Rent-a-cop "I have to write you a ticket for not having a front plate and backing in a space, sorry."

Me, "No you don't"

Rent-a-cop "uh, it is just a warning, it won't cost you anything"

Me... "shouldn't you be checking the pool for underage drinking"

Rent-a-cop "uh, thats where I'm going next"

Me..... "is McDonalds on the way to the pool, cause I see your car parked there, are you allowed to leave the complex in the company car on duty?"

Rent-a-cop "uh, not really, but my supervisor is never here"

Me, "what if he found out and had a picture to see?"

Rent-a-cop "uh, well, uh, this is just a warning, I have another stop to make, sorry"

Me and my buddy laughed our asses off, half way through our exchange he came upto my garage and saw the open gun safe....... HAHA, they will ticket us for parking in front of our garages, so I save my ticket, since we have TWO security guards, I leave the ticket under my wiper, put it in my car when I drive off, when I park back in front of my garage, I put the ticket back, one of them always thinks the other one has left it under my wiper and drive right by!

[mario]

as*sault
–noun
1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition.
2. Law. an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner.

I don't see how it would be possible to forcefully remove someone without assaulting them. This sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially the taser bit.

http://8.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/3/2/bustedtees.693be963ee3f80d0e3ef2b62621efeb2.jpg


aahhh, silly people trying to play lawyer. first mistake, don't use a regular dictionary to define a legal term.

here's the legal definition as set forth by Black's Law Dictionary (mind you the ACTUAL definition of assault will be defined by CA statute. . .this is the widely-accepted definition which likely won't differ from the CA statutory definition)

ASSAULT

assault, n. 1. Criminal & tort law. The threat or use of force on another that causes that person to have a reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact; the act of putting another person in reasonable fear or apprehension of an immediate battery by means of an act amounting to an attempt or threat to commit a battery. 2. Criminal law. An attempt to commit battery, requiring the specific intent to cause physical injury.

[mario]

objection! not true......Mario!!!!!


the Supreme Court has said (several times) that Illegal aliens have the right to sue. . .(hell, they can even be class representatives in a class action suit)

[TOYr32]

aahhh, silly people trying to play lawyer. first mistake, don't use a regular dictionary to define a legal term.

here's the legal definition as set forth by Black's Law Dictionary (mind you the ACTUAL definition of assault will be defined by CA statute. . .this is the widely-accepted definition which likely won't differ from the CA statutory definition)

Silly Mexican's trying to be American . . . HAHAHAHAA I kidd, I kidd!!

[TOYr32]

the Supreme Court has said (several times) that Illegal aliens have the right to sue. . .(hell, they can even be class representatives in a class action suit)

Yeah, that's why I retracted my statement :D

[mario]

Silly Mexican's trying to be American . . . HAHAHAHAA I kidd, I kidd!!

silly every immigrant to this country ever...irish, scotish, black (forcefully), french, trying to be american.

[mario]

IMO also, my property, if I want you off, you better get off and I should have the right to remove you without police assistance.

yes, and no.

you have the right to remove a trespasser. . .but there are certain requirements and certain things you can and cannot due (quite honestly, i'm too lazy to look up what those requirements are in CA)

[Monster8V]

silly every immigrant to this country ever...irish, scotish, black (forcefully), french, trying to be american.

False...

[TOYr32]

False...

Shut It!!

[Monster8V]

Shut It!!


Negatory.

[TOYr32]

Negatory.

Hahahahaha . . . What words of wisdom will you bless us with this time?

BTW, how's that TV working for you? Did you end up moving it, or is it still in the corner?

[Monster8V]

Hahahahaha . . . What words of wisdom will you bless us with this time?

BTW, how's that TV working for you? Did you end up moving it, or is it still in the corner?



Its been well documented that a certain group of immigrants do not want to assimilate into the american community.

I know of other Immigrant groups who's single most goal was to become americans. PERIOD. In fact, I heard nearly the same story from grandparents who came from different country's of origin who would not allow their children to speak their native toung at the dinner table ect.

Immigration is a different beast these days.

Its still in the corner. People call it the Jumbo Tron. Its a good location, high enough that the Danes can stand in front of you and stare at you and not block the TV.
Now with the PS3 and wireless controllers...... its heaven.

[TOYr32]

Its been well documented that a certain group of immigrants do not want to assimilate into the american community.

I know of other Immigrant groups who's single most goal was to become americans. PERIOD. In fact, I heard nearly the same story from grandparents who came from different country's of origin who would not allow their children to speak their native toung at the dinner table ect.

Immigration is a different beast these days.

Its still in the corner. People call it the Jumbo Tron. Its a good location, high enough that the Danes can stand in front of you and stare at you and not block the TV.
Now with the PS3 and wireless controllers...... its heaven.

Hit the nail on the head with the assimilation.

It's spelled tongue

Did you ever run the wires in the wall?

[mike]

I have a friend who was born here, parents immigrated here from Mexico legally way back when, he doesn't speak spanish, his dad would yell at him if he caught him speaking it when he was a kid.

I have another friend who was born here, speaks spanish, but refuses to interpret for people who don't speak english.

[Anonymous]

aahhh, silly people trying to play lawyer. first mistake, don't use a regular dictionary to define a legal term.

here's the legal definition as set forth by Black's Law Dictionary (mind you the ACTUAL definition of assault will be defined by CA statute. . .this is the widely-accepted definition which likely won't differ from the CA statutory definition)

:rolleyes: Silly lawyers(in training) trying to be people. How is your definition that much different than the one the "dictionary" listed?
You put in bold these two lines so I guess we'll start there: a)that causes that person to have a reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact
b)reasonable fear or apprehension of an immediate battery by means of an act amounting to an attempt or threat to commit a battery.
now lets look at definition 2.an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner.

Yeah, that's a huge difference. Maybe in yer big city law houses but on the interwebs I'd say it pretty much says the same thing.

[JETTAone420]

reading thread dates > ted





hahah im gonna just hush now and let the pros handle this