Suspension help on a new beetle

[littleturbo]

I want to get suspension to lower my beetle a little more in the front than in the rear. I don't know exactly how much I want to drop it yet, maybe an inch, inch 1/2 tops. At the same time I don't want a very harsh ride. I need this car for long trips (600 miles +) a few times a year, so I need the ride to be comfortable. I also don't want to play with dampening adjusting unless absolutely necessary.



I was thinking of a height adjustable coilover, like the bilstien PSS. What is the ride like on those? Is it very harsh? Does anyone have them with 18 inch wheels? Do you have any problems with rubbing?


Thanks! :smokem:

[MikekiM]

The Bilstein PSS kit is a bit more on the harsh side.
While you might not want to be adjusting the shocks all the time, I'd still consider the KONI shocks. The Vogtland suspension kit with KONI shocks will offer a good comfortable ride with just over an inch lowering.

Visit our website, or email if you have any questions.

[bugzy]

i think mike's suggestion is right ... the vogtland setup seems to be pretty good for comfort

Bilstein PSS are more on the sporty/autox side.

By the way, Welcome to SoCalEuro !

[littleturbo]

Thanks for the welcome, I hate to sound like a newb, but what is the code designation for the beetle?

Can you adjust the height of the vogtlands? How would they compare (ride and height wise) to a koni and H&R sport combo?

[MikekiM]

Beetle is a MkIV.
The Vogtland suspension kits are not height adjustable. For that feature, you'll have to invest in Coilovers, which are quite a bit more expensive.

The Vogtland suspension kit will include KONI shocks, so the ride will be very similar to the other setup you mention. The ride height will also be fairly similar, as both the Vogtland and H&R springs lower roughly 1.5".

[SYNYSTAGLI]

I have the Bilstein PSS on a MKIV Jetta, ride is good but can get harsh depending on your driving. We recently bought the H&R cupkit for my daughters MKIV Jetta from Mike Kim ( www.purems.com ) and I wish I would have bought those for my car. Perfect drop, rides real nice, and I would have saved close to 500.00.

[littleturbo]

The vogtlands are a good deal right now on your site, wow. How long will that last? Are the springs in the vogtland set up linear or progressive? What is the spring rate? Your site calls for a two inch drop. I am afraid that may be too low. I don't want to be scuffing the front up everywhere I go, or rubbing with the wheels. Do you think it may be too low?

[littleturbo]

Mike, where is Riverside is your company located? Do you have instalation facilities?

[paultakeda]

Mike installed my Vogtland/KONI setup, the ride is stiff but not annoying. This is at 50% stiff in the rear and 0% in the front.

I have found no cause to adjust it in the year and a half since.

Here's a pic so you can gauge the height:

http://linus.grumblemutterspit.org/graphics/car.jpg

[littleturbo]

Thanks for the picture Paul, it looks really nice. Do you have trouble going into steep parking lots, or anything like that?

[bugzy]

as you can see, Mike Kim has helped a lot of people around here

[paultakeda]

Troubles:

1. Auto car washes will rip the plastic "skid plate" right off. Hand wash only.
2. The car is low enough that it WILL impact with those concrete parking lot bumpers at the head of a parking space. It's just high enough that it won't destroy your bumper, but it'll scratch the crap out of it's underside.

Those are the big ones. I haven't had problems with steep lots (I got up the Best Buy ramp to the roof parking all the time).

[paultakeda]

And yes, I was lazy enough to one day just shove the car through an auto car wash, and yes, it ripped the plastic "skid plate" (obviously its function is nothing of the sort, but merely a sound dampener and to block water, dirt, and mud) right off. How else would I have known?

:D

(and yes, I'm investing in a Dieselgeek aluminum skid plate soon... right after I figure out how to pay for it)

[littleturbo]

That sounds reasonable enough for troubles after suspension. I think the voltland set up may be the smart way to go.

A coworker of mine has a stock beetle, she managed to tear up the underpanel as well. I think she ran over something.

[Monster8V]

That sounds reasonable enough for troubles after suspension. I think the voltland set up may be the smart way to go.

A coworker of mine has a stock beetle, she managed to tear up the underpanel as well. I think she ran over something.



I dont have a partictularly steep driveway but I scrape the shit out of my Beetle even after going up and down it at an angle. The wife has managed to crack the RF fender doing this. The suspension is stock. Go figure.

[littleturbo]

I dont have a partictularly steep driveway but I scrape the shit out of my Beetle even after going up and down it at an angle. The wife has managed to crack the RF fender doing this. The suspension is stock. Go figure.
same exact thing happened to my dad's 5 series. He kept hitting it coming into our driveway, scuffed it until the front valance finally just spilt in half all the way through. Car is completely stock as well.

[Code3_NB]

A ton of people complain the beetle is too low at STOCK height.

I guess the more important thing to ask yourself is what kind of driver are you?

I'd driven a lowered car for 7 years before i bought my beetle, so driving the beetle with the 1.75'' drop AND bodykit is no problem. I don't scrape on anything and my skidplate looks brand new. :D

Keep in mind, you don't HAVE to replace your shocks & struts if you only drop under 2''. The stock ones are capable of handing it. I've got 60k on mine and it feels great. I don't race or anything like that and i do tend to take long trips so i wanted to keep it comfortable.

I would also recommend you look into Autotech's (http://www.autotech.com/) Sport Springs. They will only lower you 1 - 1.5 ''. It is very subtle. Still a comfortable ride and not a lot of drop. (albeit an even drop... not raked like you were mentioning wanting) Autotech used to have a special going where if u weren't happy with the results within 30 days - they'd put your stock stuff back on for you and give you a refund. I don't know if they still do this, but worth checking it out.

Eibach also has a minimum drop sport spring.

I don't have any personal experience with coil-overs that i can relay to you. Only i've heard that the ride can be pretty stiff.

18'' wheels will not rub.

:tup:

Welcome to SCE :)

[littleturbo]

I am a pretty relaxed driver, I like to have fun in the car I drive, but comfort is more important. I work for home, so I don't drive much. Most of it is around town, and then the few road trips I need to take during the year. I think the beetle is sort of high stock. I want the car to get looks on the road (as if a red bug won't!) and set me appart from the normal girls/women you see driving around in beetles. Yours looks really nice Amber Lei, I want mine to look different, like yours. Do you know where I am coming from here, about being different?

[Code3_NB]

I am a pretty relaxed driver, I like to have fun in the car I drive, but comfort is more important. I work for home, so I don't drive much. Most of it is around town, and then the few road trips I need to take during the year. I think the beetle is sort of high stock. I want the car to get looks on the road (as if a red bug won't!) and set me appart from the normal girls/women you see driving around in beetles. Yours looks really nice Amber Lei, I want mine to look different, like yours. Do you know where I am coming from here, about being different?

You bet :tup:

Then to me it sounds like your best bet is going to be a sport drop of at least 1.5''. Save yourself the disappointment of buying the 1'' drop. It's not enough of a drop to really get the looks you want.

There are some who disagree with me about not replacing your shocks and struts for shorter ones when you put lowering springs on, so i encourage you to get other points of views. But i have always stood by my opinion and backed it up with the fact that both my cars ride nice and the shocks and struts lasted just as long as they would had the cars remained stock. *BUT - this is only with a sport drop. (under 2'') 2'' and up - you really should replace them because the shortened travel will put them more at risk for blowing.

My reasons for keeping stock shocks and struts:
I don't race my car. I sometimes take long trips and i commute a bit of a distance to work. I don't want to bruise my bladder everytime i drive somewhere. lol

The reason i asked about what type of driver you are is because the car aready has low hanging parts underneath. As you read above, people at stock height rip up their skidplates. Are you an AWARE and ALERT driver? Being hyper alert and not tail-gating has saved my front-end from getting destroyed i can't tell you how many times. lol

Anyhow, give it a shot. You can't really hurt anything. The skid plate is like 25$if you rip it off. Watch for parking blocks and curbs. .. and have a blast :D

[littleturbo]

I have never tried to drop a car with just springs alone. I am a little hesitant to try it. I think I will end up trying the voltlands, and if that doesn't work, perhaps I will just try some H&R sports with the stock shocks, and see how that works.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

[Code3_NB]

Cool - let us know how you end up liking them. H&R is going to be a bit stiffer than say Eibach or Neuspeed - fyi... you may not appreciate that on a long road trip.

I let anyone who wants to take my car for a spin do so as long as i'm with them, and i have yet to get complaints. :D I'll probably have to change out my suspension in a year or so cause i'm gettting up there in miles. I'll most likely go with OEM shocks again... they last a looong time. :tup:

[deWolff]

How many miles are on your suspension/ struts? If you are going to go to the trouble to put springs on i really have to suggest you put new struts all the way around the spring rate on a set of lowering springs is far different from the stock springs and frankly your stock struts will not have enough dampening for the lower stiffer springs and you will pay twice for install and re-install = money thrown away. If you cant afford to do it right save the money until you can i have lowered BMW's and VW's for the last 25 years and your shocks and struts make the difference between a pleasurable and well handling ride and crashing bouncy mess that will do more damage to your car than good. I purchased my Eibach sportline springs 1.82in drop with Eibach prodampers for $540.00 delivered( i will called at Eibach in Corona) through a private E-Bay sale after hunting for a month or so on line and local suppliers ie ; Neuspeed, ABD, Eurotech, Virtual parts and a slew of others no tax no shipping. I am really happy and the car handles very well. The ride is a bit stiff but not bouncy at all though as mentioned before gotta be careful of speed bumps and pot holes

[FunkTron]

I dont have a partictularly steep driveway but I scrape the shit out of my Beetle even after going up and down it at an angle. The wife has managed to crack the RF fender doing this. The suspension is stock. Go figure.


pshhhhhh

look where you live!!!!!!!!! ;)

[Code3_NB]

your shocks and struts make the difference between a pleasurable and well handling ride and crashing bouncy mess that will do more damage to your car than good.


In SOME cases yes, but not all... ie if you get stiff springs like the Cup kits or race springs. But just a sport drop for the average person that mainly wants to look cooler by being dropped a little.... stock stuff is totally sufficient. The springs rates aren't THAT different as to ruin the ride. And it still improves over stock and handles a little better actually while still remaining comfortable.

You can drive my car anytime... i assure you it is in no way shape or form a 'crashing bouncy mess'. It is completely smooth, clean, and in absolutely no danger of doing any sort of damage. (and reminding you that i have 60,000 miles on one set of springs/shocks and 150,000 on the other) That is reckless talk that scares people.

You have to look at an individuals situation and usage plans. Racing, driving style, etc.

Installing parts that are unnecessary is also a waste of money. Or having a ride too harsh and having to have it all taken back off would also be paying for it twice.

I'm not trying to argue with you nor put you down, but your claims of having a crashy, bouncy mess and doing damage to your car i take personally because that is the set-up i adore on both my cars with combined milage experience of 200,000 miles. Generalizing about suspension is like generalizing about clothing. It has to suit a persons needs, wants, and usage desires.

I'll just leave it at that, i think i've said all i can say.
:)

[Troike]

I've seen a stock New Beetle here with a badly cracked front lip, I guess they really are somewhat low stock. Then again, as terrible as the front wheel gap is on mk3s, I've scraped hard a couple times here in Flag, trying to enter Jack in the Box once, and another time pulling into an apartment complex driveway ... that time I was sure I had damaged something, couldn't believe I didnt bust an oilpan. Can't imagine how bad it would be if I had a non-stock suspension.

The way I've understood it, even if the springs you get aren't very low, its the stiffer spring rates which demand new shocks, as the old ones aren't made for such rates.

This has kept me from getting a suspension, I always wanted the 1.5" drop on my car and even considered an "OE Sport" application with only 0.75 inch (as I'm not sure how it would affect my ability to change oil, and the terrible potholes/roads/snow here make a lowered car dangerous). I could afford $250 for springs or something, but to get the full Cup Kit I'd need double that. Not sure when I should replace my current shocks anyway, I'm assuming they're still stock (car has <77,000 miles), I guess I'll keep the current stock setup until it really starts to ride badly, as I can't afford anything else now.

[Monster8V]

I'm not trying to argue with you nor put you down, but your claims of having a crashy, bouncy mess and doing damage to your car i take personally because that is the set-up i adore on both my cars with combined milage experience of 200,000 miles. Generalizing about suspension is like generalizing about clothing. It has to suit a persons needs, wants, and usage desires.

I'll just leave it at that, i think i've said all i can say.
:)



I couldnt agree more and add:

The problem with most people and their cars is they're not willing to spend the money to do it right when it comes to suspension. The "affordable" way can lead to problems later. People never consider that stock shocks only last between 40-50K to begin with. Then throw on a set of race springs, good luck!

Stiffer spring rates can be very comfortable and be much safer that stock as long as you have shocks that can handle the spring rates. Stock shocks with 400lb springs will ride/handle like crap. So many people find that out on their own and then blame the springs. Well, they did half the job. Go figure.

If you cant afford to do the suspension right, you really shouldnt be messing with it to begin with.

[deWolff]

In SOME cases yes, but not all... ie if you get stiff springs like the Cup kits or race springs. But just a sport drop for the average person that mainly wants to look cooler by being dropped a little.... stock stuff is totally sufficient. The springs rates aren't THAT different as to ruin the ride. And it still improves over stock and handles a little better actually while still remaining comfortable.

You can drive my car anytime... i assure you it is in no way shape or form a 'crashing bouncy mess'. It is completely smooth, clean, and in absolutely no danger of doing any sort of damage. (and reminding you that i have 60,000 miles on one set of springs/shocks and 150,000 on the other) That is reckless talk that scares people.

You have to look at an individuals situation and usage plans. Racing, driving style, etc.

Installing parts that are unnecessary is also a waste of money. Or having a ride too harsh and having to have it all taken back off would also be paying for it twice.

I'm not trying to argue with you nor put you down, but your claims of having a crashy, bouncy mess and doing damage to your car i take personally because that is the set-up i adore on both my cars with combined milage experience of 200,000 miles. Generalizing about suspension is like generalizing about clothing. It has to suit a persons needs, wants, and usage desires.

I'll just leave it at that, i think i've said all i can say.
:)
Amberlei i allow you this exception, if you are certain of your shocks/struts integrity and or mileage a progressive rate spring with no more than 3/4in drop may and i emphasize may work for the stock setup.

The stock damper isnt designed to accomodate the decreased piston travel. The dampening rates of the stock strut are valved soft and not designed for stiffer springs which create more heat(friction) due to thier stiffer rate.
Fact much shorter springs may cause damage to the(stock) shock from bottoming out resulting in shock failure and eventually damage to the strut bearing,wheel bearings and in extreme cases cracking the strut towers from excessive bottoming out. In some cases damage to aftermarket wheels because of the loss of dampening so the tires and ultimately the wheels are receiving the full force of the weight of the car. This is why struts are matched to the weight and rate of springs used on the car.

I assure you i am not trying to scare anyone from doing what they want to their car but can i say been there done that and paid the price. On occasion going the cheap way in some cases was more expensive in the long run. I am not suggesting that anyone spend money needlessly i am trying to save someone money, pain and regret.
Please understand that i do value your opinion Amberlei my experience has been different than yours though..

[paultakeda]

With just a few subtle changes, my car is pretty unique in my area (Los Angeles).

1. European rear fog light
2. Disabled DRLs
3. Turbo badge on on a 2001, meaning the rear hatch has the swiveled emblem and a badge (this one's too subtle)
4. Lowered

When I get around to it, it'll also be the only 2001 with side mirrors that have the new blinkers (I've had them a year, and I still haven't put them on, just like my boost gauge... sheesh).

[EDM]

Here is a picture of my old Turbo S with Neuspeed Race (2" drop) and Bilstein struts. The ride was good, not too harsh but very responsive.

http://www.parts4vws.com/images/members/Cosmic%20VR6/ShowoffB.jpg