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Should we be in Iraq? - Page 3

View Poll Results: Should we be in Iraq?

Voters
94. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    35 37.23%
  • No

    52 55.32%
  • Don't care/no opinion

    7 7.45%
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Results 41 to 60 of 76
  1. #41
    I know there are people here who fought there and they mostly have a decent idea of what is going on.

    But my question to you who here has had there family there friends etc live under a dictatorship like saddams I can truely say I have known lots of people who have gone through the horrors these people have. I have known many iraqis who have had many memebers of there familied killed by huiessein's thugs one guy I knew had 15 members of his family killed because they are christian. One of my best friends throughout elementry and junior high was from lebanon his family had to leave because of the terrorists being paid off by huesein and his men.
    You are talking about a man who paid the families of terrorists for killing Americans and Christians

    Huisessein will go amongst the hitlers of the world when we look back on this he was a truely evil man either close to hitler or worse he was just looking for the oppertunity to start world war 3.

    I have had friends and family who have lived in east germany until you see what people go through under horror like this you will not understand it is less than 1% that are against us over there the news just focuses on these horrible people.

    Oh and for those of you who think I am just a war monger then you don't know where I come from my grandfather was supposed to go to a concintration camp for not being willing to fight in world war 2 for the germans so I am not pro war unless it is for the freedom of a people
    2002 Nogaro Blue Jetta 1.8t gt30r, 1996 Passat Vr6 Wagon, 1981 Scirocco S 3a, 1980 Scirocco S future 1.8t

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  3. #42
    Super Moderator Moderator creanium's Avatar
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  4. #43
    King of Pain Moderator Alan_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4pounder
    After this election, polls are irrelevant, especially exit polls.

    Also, I'm with the other Alan. Now it's not whether we should be there, but the fact that we are there, and for better or worse we're needed there, at least until Iraq can have a stable government and police force. Leaving Iraq now would lead to a massacre of the people there that want to make it work. No w we have to be there.

    And lastly, the Polish? Hilarious dude
    But aren't polls how we measure popular opinion? Isn't this for the people by the people? I never said we shouldn't be there. But when you look at the historical record of modern war (post Korea) the people and their opinion matter. If you leave it to the generals we'll always be at war. And who are we kidding? This war isn't for THEM, It's for US.

    If we didn't have an interest do you think we'd be there?

    As for the argument about leaving them with a stable government and police force; Do you really think that any government election overseen by the US is going to have any legitimacy in the eyes of the Iraqui people?

    Do you remember the Shaw of Iran?
    Deus ex machina

  5. #44
    SoCalEuro Member Firefly4322's Avatar
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    We no longer have a choice. Wether we needed to be there or not in the first place is now irrelevant. We need to do it right this time and finish what we started.

  6. #45
    SoCalEuro Member slowjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creanium
    You gotta show a puddle of glue now cuz that's where this subject is.
    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #46
    SoCalEuro Member front9's Avatar
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    All this "it doesn't matter if we should have gone in or not, it only matters what we do now that we're there" is complete BS.

    It's such an american way of thought. Short attention span syndrom.

    Let's say we were neighbors and I accused you of planning to kill my dog and destroy my lawn with chemical fertilizers. I approached the neighborhood organization and said that without a doubt you had these chemicals, I saw you with these chemicals and knew that they were not legal to pocess and you imported them from Mexico or a country with less regulated chemical crop use.

    For some reason the neighborhood organization grants me the power to go in with all my family alongside and destroy YOUR home, kill YOUR dog when it tried to protect YOUR property, and tear up YOUR lawn in the process.

    Now, after running you out of your house destroying all your property and looking for the chemicals I supposedly, without a doubt, knew you had, I was unable to find anything at all that proved my suspiscions of you.

    At this point you are on the run, with my family still after you, I've taken over your house and chosen a family member of my own to live there, would you still say that it doesn't matter "why" I ran you out of your home, only "what" myself and the neighborhood organization does about it later.
    Hell NO you would probably sue me and have all the legal rights on your side. There was no evidence or actual items that I claimed you had, that I was worried would do me and my family harm, and now you are homeless and on the run, with a dead dog, and a tore up house.

    I would probably be fined and imprisoned, and it would matter very much that I went to "war" based on evidence that I stated as fact, which turned out to completely baseless. It would also come out that I KNEW there were really no chemicals, I just didn't like you and wanted access to your new pool, so I made up all this "evidence".

    I think that would matter.

    -------------

    You're right though, we can't just cut and run, we need to clean up our mess, but you would not leave the reconstruction of your house and yard to the person that ran you out and tore it up. I would be in jail and an intermediary would have to fix the mess.

    ---------------

    Leaving GW Bush to fix something he directly broke would be like letting the bull in the china shop superglue all the plates back together.

    -------------

    We need that lying, self opprotunist out of office.
    IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!

    Funny How Clinton almost got impeached for getting a BJ and not telling us he did, and Bush can invade a country, oust it's leader, and put in a puppet regime, all under false pretenses and scare tactics, and he gets re-elected.

    -------------

    I don't so much blame Bush (most politicians have a certain degree of corruption and ineptness) I am just dissappointed with my fellow citizens and their ability to be misled and lied to and eat it up like it was birthday cake.

  8. #47
    Northwestern Ambassador Administrator madajb's Avatar
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  9. #48
    SoCalEuro Member SoCal_GLI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by front9
    All this "it doesn't matter if we should have gone in or not, it only matters what we do now that we're there" is complete BS.

    It's such an american way of thought. Short attention span syndrom.

    Let's say we were neighbors and I accused you of planning to kill my dog and destroy my lawn with chemical fertilizers. I approached the neighborhood organization and said that without a doubt you had these chemicals, I saw you with these chemicals and knew that they were not legal to pocess and you imported them from Mexico or a country with less regulated chemical crop use.

    For some reason the neighborhood organization grants me the power to go in with all my family alongside and destroy YOUR home, kill YOUR dog when it tried to protect YOUR property, and tear up YOUR lawn in the process.

    Now, after running you out of your house destroying all your property and looking for the chemicals I supposedly, without a doubt, knew you had, I was unable to find anything at all that proved my suspiscions of you.

    At this point you are on the run, with my family still after you, I've taken over your house and chosen a family member of my own to live there, would you still say that it doesn't matter "why" I ran you out of your home, only "what" myself and the neighborhood organization does about it later.
    Hell NO you would probably sue me and have all the legal rights on your side. There was no evidence or actual items that I claimed you had, that I was worried would do me and my family harm, and now you are homeless and on the run, with a dead dog, and a tore up house.

    I would probably be fined and imprisoned, and it would matter very much that I went to "war" based on evidence that I stated as fact, which turned out to completely baseless. It would also come out that I KNEW there were really no chemicals, I just didn't like you and wanted access to your new pool, so I made up all this "evidence".

    I think that would matter.

    -------------

    You're right though, we can't just cut and run, we need to clean up our mess, but you would not leave the reconstruction of your house and yard to the person that ran you out and tore it up. I would be in jail and an intermediary would have to fix the mess.

    ---------------

    Leaving GW Bush to fix something he directly broke would be like letting the bull in the china shop superglue all the plates back together.

    -------------

    We need that lying, self opprotunist out of office.
    IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!

    Funny How Clinton almost got impeached for getting a BJ and not telling us he did, and Bush can invade a country, oust it's leader, and put in a puppet regime, all under false pretenses and scare tactics, and he gets re-elected.

    -------------

    I don't so much blame Bush (most politicians have a certain degree of corruption and ineptness) I am just dissappointed with my fellow citizens and their ability to be misled and lied to and eat it up like it was birthday cake.


    [edit] cause i don't feel like keeping my snide comments up, and start another pissing contest[/edit]

    but i will say this....if the circumstances were in fact how you describe, then what you have said does in fact make sence, BUT none of your facts have a base, most of them are stipulations and media induced not to mention they seem to be michael moore fueled....(i know that alot of you believed what you saw in his "documentaries" but some of you know that they were twisted to get his views to the mainstream)
    Last edited by SoCal_GLI; 11-17-2004 at 10:49 PM.

  10. #49
    SoCalEuro Member front9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal_GLI
    [edit] cause i don't feel like keeping my snide comments up, and start another pissing contest[/edit]

    but i will say this....if the circumstances were in fact how you describe, then what you have said does in fact make sence, BUT none of your facts have a base, most of them are stipulations and media induced not to mention they seem to be michael moore fueled....(i know that alot of you believed what you saw in his "documentaries" but some of you know that they were twisted to get his views to the mainstream)

    Wow, how can you say that none of my facts have any base, when the GWB handpicked commission came to the same conclusion that:

    there were NO WMD's, and that the sanctions had been working to eliminate his ability to produce them. (btw, not only the commission came up with these results, but also the thousands of troops that have been over there trying to find them.)

    there was no link between Saddam and the events of 9/11.

    the real connection to Bin Laden was between the Saudis, and his camps in Afghanistan. (of which it is fact that the Saudis were allowed to exit this country when even no US citizen was allowed to board a plane)

    (the part about the pool and it's comparison to the oil theres IS my own interpretation, but anyone who can't admit that a president who's family made their money in oil and seeing as how with our current state of consumption, that oil is the most important resource on the planet, how maybe, just maybe, all we wanted was a US friendly government there, like we have with the saudis, so we can keep the almighty gas pump price low, among other things)

    Oh, and btw, I've never even seen Fahrenheit 9/11 the movie.

    These are all logical conclusion based on being an informed citizen with more outlets to gain information from than the mass media blitz shoved down our throats 24/7, and the Presidents own agenda disguised as legitimate findings.

    I mean come on, you can only avoid the facts so much. The same people that led us to war are the ones that in the first few months of W Bush's presidency held conferences in which they were quoted as saying Saddam was not a threat and did not poccess the very weapons that were the primary reason congress granted him permission to go to war over.

    I wish the republican, right wing, conservative (whatever label fits you most) would stop clinging to what the president does and says as the best course of action, just for the sake that they can remain republican, right wing, or conservative.

    Honestly, people need to open their eyes and see that a deliberate wool was pulled over them, and just because you can see that Bush lied and misled us, doesn't mean your not a good republican, or soldier.

    Bush has seen some of the most prominent republicans, resign, quit, or get fired under his tenure. These are people that have served under every president since reagan or carter, and yet disagree with the president so much as to leave their job over this.

    I can see that being military personel, you might not want to admit that we took the wrong course of action and our troops were sent to fight a war that might not have been directed at the right parties.

    No one would want to admit that after years of training and service that have instilled pride in your position and duty, that some over-privileged presidents son, who shirked his own military obligations, would have the authority to send our sons and daughters to fight a war with the presidents own political and financial agendas in mind.

    The whole war beginning to end was handled poorly by the uppermost levels, even when more experienced people, Military people, voiced reservations about how the war was being fought.

    The whole "shock and awe" tactic used only seemed good for the media coverage. They didn't secure the supply chain and this is a cause for many of the first pow's and especially for the female supply personel that was caught and later found.

    claiming "mission accomplished" for the sake of the media and himself, when the majority of the war and the casualties have occured after this "historic" carrier landing and speech.

    I am, as I'm sure everyone, those for and against the war, are supporting our troops and hope that they have all the gear and tools needed to win this one with the least amount of casualties, and If you need to cling to a certain degree of the utmost righteousness while we are there, to get the job done, then so be it. But someday you'll need to learn from the mistakes of our inept leaders.

    edit: ( oh, and notice there are no snide comments and no trickle of a pissing contest, thanks)

  11. #50
    SoCalEuro Member SoCal_GLI's Avatar
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    when did Bush lie? (you can't put the blame on Bush by calling him a liar, when in fact he was responding to intelligence recieved from other countries inteligence groups)

    as far as this war being about oil....there may be an interest in oil but going to iraq is not and has never been the reason

    as far as the comment about Bush being an oil baron and only interested in lining his pockets with more oil money is a ludicris statement, there interest in middle eastern oil long before either of the Bush's were in office

    you do make some good points, but i still feel that they are biased, i don't in any way think bush is among one our great leaders, but i think given the circumstances of what he was forwarded from the previous administration and some of the blows we have taken as a country he has done a good job, yes he hasn't been perfect, but i still feel he is more of a patriot then Kerry could ever be.

  12. #51
    SoCalEuro Member Phalcon_Mojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madajb
    Hey, you gotta be nice to the Marines, it was their birthday yesterday.
    They're old now. =)
    -ajb
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Navarette
    I see cars that look really, really fast but don't go nowhere... I think the secret to rice rockets lookin' hella fast is all those fuckin' stickers on 'em!

  13. #52
    SoCalEuro Member front9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal_GLI
    when did Bush lie? (you can't put the blame on Bush by calling him a liar, when in fact he was responding to intelligence recieved from other countries inteligence groups)

    as far as this war being about oil....there may be an interest in oil but going to iraq is not and has never been the reason

    as far as the comment about Bush being an oil baron and only interested in lining his pockets with more oil money is a ludicris statement, there interest in middle eastern oil long before either of the Bush's were in office

    you do make some good points, but i still feel that they are biased, i don't in any way think bush is among one our great leaders, but i think given the circumstances of what he was forwarded from the previous administration and some of the blows we have taken as a country he has done a good job, yes he hasn't been perfect, but i still feel he is more of a patriot then Kerry could ever be.
    when did Bush lie? (you can't put the blame on Bush by calling him a liar, when in fact he was responding to intelligence recieved from other countries inteligence groups)

    Actually there are people that were involved in the meetings Bush had post 9/11, that have gone on record (after their resignation and or termination) that have stated Bush pretty much told his people that he WANTED a connection between 9/11 and saddam to be found, and that's what he wanted them to come back with.
    -As far as other countries intelligence being taken into account, it all had to filter through our government before it became public, and, I'm sure more emphasis would be put on our own governments intel, than other governments.

    as far as this war being about oil....there may be an interest in oil but going to iraq is not and has never been the reason
    -look up a little something called the "Aqaba Pipeline" and see just how far back the iraq - US oil connection goes and how somewhat sinister it all seems. Since the pipeline deal fell through, I feel that we have been pretty much waiting for a chance to go in there.

    as far as the comment about Bush being an oil baron and only interested in lining his pockets with more oil money is a ludicris statement, there interest in middle eastern oil long before either of the Bush's were in office
    - I don't think that it's purely for the lining of his pockets. the oil game goes much deeper than just one mans interest. if he can provide cheaper fuel all his corporate manufacturing interests are pleased, in fact everyone benefits, all the way down to you and I filling our tanks at the pumps, but at what cost to people throughout the world.

    but i still feel he is more of a patriot then Kerry could ever be.
    - now this one i just don't get at all. kerry served in vietnam under fire and was a highly decorated vet. upon his return to the states he made it his mission, even though it was not the "popular" route to go through, especially if he had political aspirations, to bring an end to the vietnam war and not loose anymore of our boys in a war that history has shown to be one of our countries major blunders. you should really do some unbiased research of this guy kerry, i didn't really like him at first, but the more i found out, the more i realized he's a pretty upstanding kinda guy
    Whereas on the other had, bush got cushy national guard duty and even shirked what little responsibility he had there, like not even making time for duty or even his medical examinations. Just a priviledged little kid, taking advantage of his father's and family's positions.

    thanks for the replies. i like the unheated intelligent conversations with a differing opinion.

  14. #53
    SoCalEuro Member SoCal_GLI's Avatar
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    my patriotism comment had to do with the fact that he is in the communist hero museum for a reason, mostly for what he was saying when he got back from nam. and yeah he was decorated, but if you look at the purple hearts he recieved you will see that for the most part they were self inflicted, due to his incompetence, Kerry falls into the same category as Jane Fonda in my book.


    and yes this is a very true statement:

    i like the unheated intelligent conversations with a differing opinion

  15. #54
    SoCalEuro Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal_GLI
    my patriotism comment had to do with the fact that he is in the communist hero museum for a reason, mostly for what he was saying when he got back from nam. and yeah he was decorated, but if you look at the purple hearts he recieved you will see that for the most part they were self inflicted, due to his incompetence, Kerry falls into the same category as Jane Fonda in my book.


    and yes this is a very true statement:

    i like the unheated intelligent conversations with a differing opinion
    Sounds like your info is from the swift boat veterns/John O'neill. There has been over-whelming evidence that shoots down almost ever aspect of the SBVT book. With the fog of war, we probably will never know the real facts of how Kerry served. What we do know to be facts though is that he did go to Vietnam and Bush did not. Does that make him more patriotic than Bush? Not really but it's a matter of opinion. Lets try to form our opinions on what we know to be facts though.

    As far as the communist hero museum... Let's say I decide to start a Satanic hero museum. Let's say I decide that, in my opinion, George Bush's presidency makes him perfect to go in my museum. Does that make Bush a satan worshipper? No. Does that mean that Bush's presidency makes him eligible? It would be a matter of opinion.

  16. #55
    SoCalEuro Member mike's Avatar
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    oh shit, another worm can has been opened while I've been busy...............Ok, we went to Iraq for bullshit reasons as we all know. We all know that our right wing religious wacko leader has got us buried in shit, we have to know clean up the mess he started as we cant just leave the country in a blown up mess so we are in for the duration.

    I will say I back our soldiers 100% and if they want to raise my taxes and give them better pay and benifits they so rightly deserve, I would gladly accept as I have friends there and they have damn well earned more than thier fair share for the courage and hard work, Thanks

  17. #56
    SoCalEuro Member slowjet's Avatar
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    Ok, pretty much im hearing a lot of opinions. The only person or few that will ever know the true reason why Bush declared war on Iraq is himself and his possy. That's it. Unless you work with Bush, personally, which i doubt, eveybody here can just guess. Also what you hear in the news or read in the tabloids, that's just a bunch of hooha to reel you guys, the viewers, in to make money. Bush is not as dumb as he seems. This war is the reason that kept him in the White house and he knew that. Also, Saddam tried assassinating Bush Sr., so yeah, what do you think Bush Jr. is gonna do?
    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  18. #57
    Northwestern Ambassador Administrator madajb's Avatar
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    You are just a bunch of pathetic whiners.
    If any of you had the balls and the brains, you'd be over there fighting instead of over here whining about it.

    You don't like the president? Screw you, he probably doesn't like you either. Nobody likes you.

    John Kerry doesn't like you either.
    Kerry doesn't give a crap that he wasn't elected. He's too busy taking million dollar Ketchup baths with the Bush Twins and Hilary.

    In short, you are all sheep in sheep's clothing.
    -ajb



  19. #58
    I Race Anything! Moderator Monster8V's Avatar
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    Hahahahaha!! Alan gets it......!
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  20. #59
    SoCalEuro Member SoCal_GLI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madajb
    You are just a bunch of pathetic whiners.
    If any of you had the balls and the brains, you'd be over there fighting instead of over here whining about it.

    You don't like the president? Screw you, he probably doesn't like you either. Nobody likes you.

    John Kerry doesn't like you either.
    Kerry doesn't give a crap that he wasn't elected. He's too busy taking million dollar Ketchup baths with the Bush Twins and Hilary.

    In short, you are all sheep in sheep's clothing.
    -ajb

    you got my vote

    has to be the most intelligent post i have ever seen here.

    Alan how are your brakes doin?

  21. #60
    Save the Boobies!!!!! Moderator Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madajb
    You are just a bunch of pathetic whiners.
    If any of you had the balls and the brains, you'd be over there fighting instead of over here whining about it.

    You don't like the president? Screw you, he probably doesn't like you either. Nobody likes you.

    John Kerry doesn't like you either.
    Kerry doesn't give a crap that he wasn't elected. He's too busy taking million dollar Ketchup baths with the Bush Twins and Hilary.

    In short, you are all sheep in sheep's clothing.
    -ajb
    Post of the month!

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