Vr6 turbo question for you vrt's out there

**vr6 Rob** · 06-13-2012, 05:46 PM

Well I've done extensive research and decided to use a stg 3 kinetic kit as a foundation for my first turbo build. Although, I'm stuck on a few things and need some guidance.

Whp goal is 400 and I'll be intercooler and have a head spacer.... 42lb injectors and inline fuel pump. My bottom end is stock for now and gonna be throwing in Autotech 262's and new lightweight lifters. Tranny is being rebuilt and prepped as we speak with a Peloquin LSD and stg 3 clutch net clutch and yellow pressure plate.

Now my confusion starts here: I have the option of a) precision t3/t4 60 trim and b) garret t3/t4 60-1. Both with either 63 ar or 82 ar. I also have the option($700 more yikes) to upgrade to a gt35r, 30r or precision 6262 all with either 63 ar or 82 ar. Now considering I don't want to pony up the extra $700 on top of everything to upgrade to a gt35r, what t3/t4 turbo should I go with as well as what ar? I suppose it's useful to say that this is my daily driver that gets me to work and I don't rev(nor do I plan to) my engine to 7500+ rpm. Some say on a t3/t4 the best ar for a vr6 is 81 since the with the 63 it boosts too soon and runs out of breath. That's understandable but with the 81 ar, would I be as daily driver/street friendly as the 63 and where would I start to see boost and where would I see full boost?

Sorry for the long post but I know the turbo gurus and more versed like to have as much info on goals and such so they can give the best/most accurate advise.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. It's much appreciated.

**Euro** · 06-13-2012 05:46 PM

**1965truckrod** · 06-13-2012, 09:48 PM

First off Precision Turbos are absolute shit and stay the shit away from them, I'll post more but I thought I would get my point across with that, more to come regarding the trim sizes, and drivability

Jesse

**FunkTron** · 06-14-2012, 08:10 AM

ahem...still waiting for info

**vr6 Rob** · 06-14-2012, 01:00 PM

Me too but here's a similar reply I got on the tex:

"Ive had bad luck with my Precision turbo I got with my kinetics kit from CTS. Its been rebuilt twice now in a year due to the turbine seal leaking. This time they put a different type of seal in it so hopefully it holds up ill be giving it one more go around. A lot of others have been having problems with brand new precision journal bearings on other platforms too...just do a google search. Not trying to bash anyone here, but garrett seems to have a better quality chra as far as JB goes."

This is really making me stray from that specific turbo but Clay at CTS continues to recommend it eventhough I mentioned the failure rate. I really need to get some more reviews so that I order the right turbo.

**Agent Orange** · 06-14-2012, 01:28 PM

Personally, if you're looking to go to a bigger turbo than a K04, do yourself a favor and get a ballbearing. Ignore anything journal bearing. Just a grenade waiting to happen...

**vr6 Rob** · 06-14-2012, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Personally, if you're looking to go to a bigger turbo than a K04, do yourself a favor and get a ballbearing. Ignore anything journal bearing. Just a grenade waiting to happen...

Well the t3/t4's in question are jb's but if I'd go with I.e. pt6262 or gt35r they are both bb.

**1965truckrod** · 06-14-2012, 06:15 PM

Alright here it goes...

**1965truckrod** · 06-14-2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by vr6 Rob

Well I've done extensive research and decided to use a stg 3 kinetic kit as a foundation for my first turbo build. Although, I'm stuck on a few things and need some guidance.

Whp goal is 400 and I'll be intercooler and have a head spacer.... 42lb injectors and inline fuel pump. My bottom end is stock for now and gonna be throwing in Autotech 262's and new lightweight lifters. Tranny is being rebuilt and prepped as we speak with a Peloquin LSD and stg 3 clutch net clutch and yellow pressure plate.

Now my confusion starts here: I have the option of a) precision t3/t4 60 trim and b) garret t3/t4 60-1. Both with either 63 ar or 82 ar. I also have the option($700 more yikes) to upgrade to a gt35r, 30r or precision 6262 all with either 63 ar or 82 ar. Now considering I don't want to pony up the extra $700 on top of everything to upgrade to a gt35r, what t3/t4 turbo should I go with as well as what ar? I suppose it's useful to say that this is my daily driver that gets me to work and I don't rev(nor do I plan to) my engine to 7500+ rpm. Some say on a t3/t4 the best ar for a vr6 is 81 since the with the 63 it boosts too soon and runs out of breath. That's understandable but with the 81 ar, would I be as daily driver/street friendly as the 63 and where would I start to see boost and where would I see full boost?

Sorry for the long post but I know the turbo gurus and more versed like to have as much info on goals and such so they can give the best/most accurate advise.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. It's much appreciated.

Alright stay away from the 30r, and the 6262, they won't benefit your engine because of its displacement and its like having a K04 on a 1.8T, not enough turbo and you'll get bored of it. My personal suggestion is save your money and buy the GT35R or the higher end Ball Bearing T3/T4 60 trim Garrett Turbo, your going to wear out the cheaper turbos in about a year and a half and you'll regret wasting money on the boat anchor you now have in your garage.
With a goal of 400whp that means your going to need mid 400's at the flywheel and that is where the GT35R accel's the best, if I was planning on going anything over 400 I would have done a GT35R on my car. It really depends on the Trim size and the AR. 82 AR I think you will enjoy more because your going to be sending much more volume to your motor vice the 63ar which is what I have on my car. You won't see a significant lag/torque problem as your already working with a 6 cylinder and already has a decent amount of torque, with the cams you are going to be adding that's already an advantage in low to mid power range so I think you'll see a significant bonus with the larger AR turbo. Just keep min mind that you need to have the injectors to accommodate the turbo. 42lbs are significant enough but there is nothing wrong with going larger on your injectors and trimming them down through your software.
If you want your car to produce 400 hp you are going to need more then a stock bottom end unless you have a R32 block which I doubt you have. At the very least you will need beefier rods as you don't want to stress out the motor and unless its a fresh rebuild, you'll already have significant wear already. Having a Peloquinn and a higher end clutch may not be enough to handle all of the torque you are going to be producing so you may want to consider getting a set of hardened gears or a beefed up transmission that can handle close to 500lbs of torque, otherwise you'll end up shredding a gear and thusly the entire transmission. Also consider getting a set of stronger CV's. If you have a 02j Transmission then you have hollow CV's and they tend to twist anything past 370-380 wheel torque.

You "Will" need stiffer motor mounts, that motor is going to be torquing over with that added power so consider getting a set of Delrin or "track" density motor mounts to insure your not shredding hoses, wires etc.

*I am in class now and getting stared at so I need to stop for now, I'll add more later one*

Jesse

**vr6 Rob** · 06-30-2012, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the thorough reply Jesse. As much as I value your opinion and advice, I'm one who needs to learn things first hand- the hard way. Witt that said, I opted for a Garret T3/T4 with a stage III turbine wheel and 82ar. I've heard this is an awesome turbo as far as the T series turbo's for a 12v. I know the T series turbos are ancient technology and what have you but I figured if it sucks and blows, it was a good learning experience and I wasn't out too much money. Plus, then I'd really appreciate a gt series bb turbo a lot more and truly notice the difference. So I ordered the stage 3 kit including the head spacer, intercooler, inline fuel pump and I upgraded the injectors to Siemens 630cc to add some room to grow if I end up getting a bigger turbo or even pushing the t3/t4 to its limits. Clay at cts has started putting the kit together and said the turbo is literally in the mail. I can't wait!

In the meantime, I received my rebuilt 02J with Peloquin in the mail and getting the tranny swap this week. As much as I'd have liked to use cryo'ed gears, etc...that's way out of my budget for what I'm going for with this car. And as far as rods and pistons, as nice as it may be, I know a good amount of people(almost majority) are running upwards of 400whp on stock blocks and heads. If I spin a bearing or bend a rod, it would be a good time to rebuild the engine anyways. But I'm told by people who have 20k miles on their vrt stocks blocks that it all depends on the tune and monitoring AF, oil temp, EGT, etc. now I know the "ideal" approach would be to do the rebuild BEFORE you slap a turbo on there but the more I read, the more I admire how strong the vr6 engine is.

Now I'm just debating on going with an SRI since I'm almost certain I'd have to push around 20psi boost and my stock mk4 plastic pos mani won't hold that. Although, I don't want to sacrifice the bottom end- like people say will happen- since this is my daily driver. If it means run less boost for a while then I might just do that and get used to a boosted car first before I jump right into 20 lb's of boost lol. Do you know how noticeable the Sri will be in city driving? And do you think I should hold off on the Sri til I want to run more boost or do you think it's totally necessary?

I'm excited about everything but if I can be totally frank, I'm debating on whether it was a smart idea to put all this money into a car with 115k that's only work a couple grand. I sure hope the feeling I get when I first drive the car is going to make it worth it all.